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View Poll Results: Which is HK more of?
More "Chinese" 27 90.00%
More "British" 3 10.00%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-27-2018, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,389 posts, read 565,684 times
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Hong Kong is neither more Chinese nor more westernized after '97.

Correctly speaking, it is more localized.

The English proficiency level among the general population has gone down somewhat after '97. So it is less westernized. But on the other hand, it is neither more Chinese if you mean that more people can communicate in Putonghua effectively.

Unlike neighboring Shenzhen or Guangzhou where Putonghua is the lingua franca, the language is seldom spoken outside the tourist district.

In fact, many schools have given up using Putonghua as the medium to teach Chinese language.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,389 posts, read 565,684 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
I think many people are conflating Hong Kong with Singapore (the latter which is still very westernized, modern, and English-speaking to this day) and thus think HK is very westernized.
Singapore is hardly westernized judged by western standard. In Singapore, nobody dares challenge the government in court. You cannot even badmouth Lee Kuan Yew on your Facebook page.

In Hong Kong, you can sue government in court. And in some cases, the government lost the lawsuit. And of course you can still curse Mao or Xi on your Facebook page.
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Old 12-27-2018, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
10,073 posts, read 6,701,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Singapore is hardly westernized judged by western standard. In Singapore, nobody dares challenge the government in court. You cannot even badmouth Lee Kuan Yew on your Facebook page.

In Hong Kong, you can sue government in court. And in some cases, the government lost the lawsuit. And of course you can still curse Mao or Xi on your Facebook page.
Adding on to your comments to Mr. Jester:

Aside from the levels of political control (opposition politicians will often get sued and sometimes bankrupted for their positions) and media control in their society, Singaporeans, in terms of their cultural and points of view, aren't as Westernized as you might think. Don't let the level of English language proficiency common in Singapore fool you. Ditto for the Philippines.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
6,062 posts, read 9,580,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Terms like "To let", "Lorry", "Godown", "Fortnight", "Shroff Office", "Lift",.......are still very commonly or officially used.
Maybe "officially", but not commonly. Regular people (locals) do not understand or speak English. We met almost nobody on the streets or in shops or restaurants who could speak it.

Quote:
For instance, bamboo scaffolding is still widely used while it is hardly used in China.
Not true. Bamboo scaffolding is used all over the place in Shanghai. I've got photos of construction sites and high-rises that show this. Part of the reason I took the photos was to show some of my relatives in Colombia, where bamboo (although a different variety) is also heavily used for construction.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,389 posts, read 565,684 times
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And the most British part in Hong Kong is that when you enter a "Lift" (elevator), the buttons show that there are G, 1, 2, 3, .....etc. I have seen many people have a hard time to choose to press between G or 1.

And most "Lift" omit 13 and 14. Both western and Chinese.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,389 posts, read 565,684 times
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Others like that Hong Kong has an electrical system identical to UK. Both use 220V and both use the British three prolonged wall plug. In other words, you can just bring your UK appliances to Hong Kong and they work right away.

Singapore is a little bit less British because their system is 230V. But UK appliances still work.
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Old 12-27-2018, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,869 posts, read 3,447,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post

But on the other hand, it is neither more Chinese if you mean that more people can communicate in Putonghua effectively.
Yes but Cantonese are Chinese no matter how you spin it. Language is only one trait of self identity. What about food, beliefs, ancestral worship, and other customs and traditions shared with almost everyone else in China?
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Old 12-27-2018, 06:49 PM
 
6,741 posts, read 6,662,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Hong Kong is neither more Chinese nor more westernized after '97.

Correctly speaking, it is more localized.

The English proficiency level among the general population has gone down somewhat after '97. So it is less westernized. But on the other hand, it is neither more Chinese if you mean that more people can communicate in Putonghua effectively.

Unlike neighboring Shenzhen or Guangzhou where Putonghua is the lingua franca, the language is seldom spoken outside the tourist district.

In fact, many schools have given up using Putonghua as the medium to teach Chinese language.
I do believe much more Hong Kongers are able to understand/speak Mandarin after 97.

In the early 90s, many Hong Kong celebrities could not even make a coherent sentence in Mandarin, but now all of them speak Mandarin quite fluently, even though with some Cantonese accent. I also met some young people from Hong Kong and all of them speak decent Mandarin.

Of course they do not speak Mandarin every day, but many people in mainland China do not either.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:21 PM
 
1,578 posts, read 556,905 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Singapore is hardly westernized judged by western standard. In Singapore, nobody dares challenge the government in court. You cannot even badmouth Lee Kuan Yew on your Facebook page.

In Hong Kong, you can sue government in court. And in some cases, the government lost the lawsuit. And of course you can still curse Mao or Xi on your Facebook page.
Then by your standards South Korea and Japan are even more westernized than Hong Kong because they're even more democratic.
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Old 12-28-2018, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,389 posts, read 565,684 times
Reputation: 1126
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrJester View Post
Then by your standards South Korea and Japan are even more westernized than Hong Kong because they're even more democratic.
To judge a country/society whether it is westernized does not solely depend on whether how many of its people speak English.

There are many core values in western culture, i.e. tolerance of others, whether it is speech or religion or others.

For example, most western countries accept LGBT. Though gay or lesbian marriage is not completely legalized among all western countries, same sex sexual activity is not illegal.

So let's look at how some Asian governments handle this issue:

(1) Singapore:

Same sex marriage illegal. Same sex sexual activity, even it is consensual and private, is illegal. Can be jailed up to 2 years.

(2) Hong Kong:

Same sex marriage illegal. But same sex marriage overseas can be admitted case by case basis. Same sex sexual activity legal.

(3) Taiwan:

Same sex marriage is a national issue that has recently been put through a plebiscite. Same sex sexual activity legal.

(4) Japan:

Same sex marriage illegal. But marriage overseas legal. Same sex sexual activity legal.

(5) South Korea:

Same sex marriage illegal. Same sex sexual activity legal.

On this issue, I would say Singapore is the least westernized among the more developed societies in Asia.

Not much different from Saudi Arabia albeit sentence is lighter.
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