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Old 01-04-2019, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,353 posts, read 545,573 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
but now things have changed. it is like ancient english is no longer in use. so all these pre-pingyin spelling should be corrected. For example, Peking is no longer used. An average chinese will have problem identifying who is Hu Shih
But most average Chinese don't know who Hu Shih is. So why bother?

The Chinese Language syllabus in Middle and High School in both Hong Kong and Taiwan have excerpts from Hu Shih. But Hu, until recently, is still a persona non grata, in China. Unless somebody digs into his life, hardly will he encounter any writings from Hu.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
But most average Chinese don't know who Hu Shih is. So why bother?

The Chinese Language syllabus in Middle and High School in both Hong Kong and Taiwan have excerpts from Hu Shih. But Hu, until recently, is still a persona non grata, in China. Unless somebody digs into his life, hardly will he encounter any writings from Hu.
His name is mentioned in history textbook of China and all students in China learned about him. There was even his image in my textbook (used in all of China) when I was in middle school.

It's true the Chinese language class did not cover his works.
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Old 01-04-2019, 06:35 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
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Actually in China's Middle School Chinese language curriculum, Hu Shih's article "My Mother" had been almost adopted into the textbook in 2017.

But somehow in the last minute, it was replaced by Zhu De's "In Memory of My Mother".

So who is Hu and who is Zhu?

Hu graduated from Cornell and Columbia. Mao was his admirer and in 1949, Mao sincerely invited Hu to stay as the Chancellor of Peking University. But Hu was not stupid. He knew Mao could never tolerate liberal intellectual like him. So he moved to Taiwan. Chiang Kai Shek neither could stand Hu. Once he told his wife that he got really infuriated by Hu who openly insulted him.

But Hu was never purged by Chiang and stayed on a top post.

But who is Zhu? A soldier who revolted with Mao in 1927. He attended university in Moscow (probably indoctrination).

So in term of literary value, how can Zhu be compared with Hu?

Hu's famous writing "Mr. Almost" explores the backwardness of the character of Chinese people much deeper than Lu Xun's "Story of Ah Q".

So admit it. There is a huge cultural gap between China and Taiwan/Hong Kong. Culturally they are not the same people.
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:06 PM
 
Location: Earth
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Confucius says obey!
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Old 01-04-2019, 07:42 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
For example, Peking is no longer used. An average chinese will have problem identifying who is Hu Shih
That is an exaggeration. You really think a Chinese who can read the English alphabet will have difficulty determining who is "Hu Shih" or what is "Peking" on the basis of how the name is spelled? I'd rather believe a Chinese who has never heard of Hu Shi before at all or a Chinese who can read simplified characters but cannot read traditional characters or vice versa.

Many average Chinese aren't even familiar with romanization schemes and won't be able to tell the difference between Hanyu Pinyin, Wade-Giles, GR etc. To them, all romanization is foreign and the only way they can decipher the words are if they are written in characters. Those that are familiar with romanization schemes or Chinese language history will pronounce names the way they are accustomed to regardless of how the romanization is spelled.
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Old 01-05-2019, 03:25 AM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Actually in China's Middle School Chinese language curriculum, Hu Shih's article "My Mother" had been almost adopted into the textbook in 2017.

But somehow in the last minute, it was replaced by Zhu De's "In Memory of My Mother".

So who is Hu and who is Zhu?

Hu graduated from Cornell and Columbia. Mao was his admirer and in 1949, Mao sincerely invited Hu to stay as the Chancellor of Peking University. But Hu was not stupid. He knew Mao could never tolerate liberal intellectual like him. So he moved to Taiwan. Chiang Kai Shek neither could stand Hu. Once he told his wife that he got really infuriated by Hu who openly insulted him.

But Hu was never purged by Chiang and stayed on a top post.

But who is Zhu? A soldier who revolted with Mao in 1927. He attended university in Moscow (probably indoctrination).

So in term of literary value, how can Zhu be compared with Hu?

Hu's famous writing "Mr. Almost" explores the backwardness of the character of Chinese people much deeper than Lu Xun's "Story of Ah Q".

So admit it. There is a huge cultural gap between China and Taiwan/Hong Kong. Culturally they are not the same people.
Zhu was not a scholar as Hu and was not specialized in literature and humanities, but he was one of the most influential persons at that time in Chinese history, so it's fair enough to learn something about him, although Hu's works should be covered too.
Zhu received tradition education (私塾) at home, and later attended military school in Yunnan and Germany before joining the communist party. He represents a revolutionary generation and was not just a "soldier" brainwashed in Moscow.

The fact that students in Taiwan do not study any works from the communists is a pity too.

Last edited by Bettafish; 01-05-2019 at 04:15 AM..
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Old 01-05-2019, 06:11 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
9,876 posts, read 6,611,493 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
but now things have changed. it is like ancient english is no longer in use. so all these pre-pingyin spelling should be corrected. For example, Peking is no longer used. An average chinese will have problem identifying who is Hu Shih
Nah. Any native speaker of Chinese who is literate will not have a problem learning of Hu Shih as it would be written in Chinese. Has nothing to do with romanization. Same with Beijing/Peking - it's the same characters in Chinese characters
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:43 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 628,037 times
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that's pure nonsense. most chinese learn their chinese through the pingyin system. Most people will have difficulty in understanding Hu Shih even though they know who is 胡适. they probably think it is a typo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Nah. Any native speaker of Chinese who is literate will not have a problem learning of Hu Shih as it would be written in Chinese. Has nothing to do with romanization. Same with Beijing/Peking - it's the same characters in Chinese characters
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Old 01-07-2019, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,353 posts, read 545,573 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Zhu was not a scholar as Hu and was not specialized in literature and humanities, but he was one of the most influential persons at that time in Chinese history, so it's fair enough to learn something about him, although Hu's works should be covered too.
Zhu received tradition education (私塾) at home, and later attended military school in Yunnan and Germany before joining the communist party. He represents a revolutionary generation and was not just a "soldier" brainwashed in Moscow.

The fact that students in Taiwan do not study any works from the communists is a pity too.
To learn about Zhu is not via a Chinese language course but through modern Chinese history. I don't understand why Zhu's article should be put in the Chinese language textbook.

The only justification is politics overrides literary value.
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Old 01-07-2019, 03:26 PM
 
1,011 posts, read 628,037 times
Reputation: 283
A letter by George Washington has great value in terms of language education, although it has little value in literature. Language is not equal to literature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
To learn about Zhu is not via a Chinese language course but through modern Chinese history. I don't understand why Zhu's article should be put in the Chinese language textbook.

The only justification is politics overrides literary value.
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