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Old 01-08-2019, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,365 posts, read 549,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
what you mean by keeping differentiating PRC or ROC? they are like different periods or administrations. It is like saying you need to change language system if you change from republican administration to democratic administration in the US.

ping yin system is used in modern chinese. it is not a thing just for PRC
Gimme a break. ROC=>PRC equates change of administration from GOP to Democratic Party? It is a bloody revolution/rebellion (depending point of view) that cost millions of lives.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:01 PM
 
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i am not arguing about that. but throughout chinese history, dynasties change hands. So the language developed in Ming dynasty did not apply in Qing dynasty? Ping yin now is the standard for chinese language. it is the fact. Taiwan or some overseas chinese may resist this, but it just does not matter, as 99% percent of chinese speakers already adopted it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Gimme a break. ROC=>PRC equates change of administration from GOP to Democratic Party? It is a bloody revolution/rebellion (depending point of view) that cost millions of lives.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:02 PM
 
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also, the same thing happened when ROC replaced Qing. Millions of lives lost
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Gimme a break. ROC=>PRC equates change of administration from GOP to Democratic Party? It is a bloody revolution/rebellion (depending point of view) that cost millions of lives.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,365 posts, read 549,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
His article is used for grade 7 or 8, or kids at 13 or 14 years old. Very suitable and totally legitimate.
Out of the 10 Marshals of PRC in 1950s, why chose Zhu's article but not any from the other nine Marshals?

IMO two other Marshals' works should be chosen as well.

Lin Biao -- Marshal Lin had achieved more military feats than Zhu in the Civil War. And after his unfortunate death, Lin ranked in par with Confucius in the "Ridicule Lin Ridicule Confucius" national political campaign. Since China's textbook adopts Confucius writing, then why is Lin's writing not excerpted into the textbook?

Peng Dehuai -- Marshal Peng tied with US in the Korean War. And he had the guts to tell Mao to halt the nonsensical practice to melt your kitchen's wok to increase national steel output during the Great Leap Forward.

Zhu neither earned the high praise of Lin who ranked with Confucius, nor did he have the gut to tell Mao what is right and what is wrong. Looks like a mama's boy to me.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,365 posts, read 549,081 times
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Anyway, even Lu Xun's "Story of Ah Q" was dropped from some textbooks in China and replaced by excerpt from Jin Yong's Marital art novels.

So Chinese language syllabus in China's school looks like the replica of pseudo popular culture from Hong Kong.
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:56 PM
 
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Zhu is the No 1 Marshal and one of the two founders of PLA (the other is Mao). He is historically more significant than other marshals


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Out of the 10 Marshals of PRC in 1950s, why chose Zhu's article but not any from the other nine Marshals?

IMO two other Marshals' works should be chosen as well.

Lin Biao -- Marshal Lin had achieved more military feats than Zhu in the Civil War. And after his unfortunate death, Lin ranked in par with Confucius in the "Ridicule Lin Ridicule Confucius" national political campaign. Since China's textbook adopts Confucius writing, then why is Lin's writing not excerpted into the textbook?

Peng Dehuai -- Marshal Peng tied with US in the Korean War. And he had the guts to tell Mao to halt the nonsensical practice to melt your kitchen's wok to increase national steel output during the Great Leap Forward.

Zhu neither earned the high praise of Lin who ranked with Confucius, nor did he have the gut to tell Mao what is right and what is wrong. Looks like a mama's boy to me.
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,859 posts, read 3,423,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Out of the 10 Marshals of PRC in 1950s, why chose Zhu's article but not any from the other nine Marshals?

IMO two other Marshals' works should be chosen as well.

Lin Biao -- Marshal Lin had achieved more military feats than Zhu in the Civil War. And after his unfortunate death, Lin ranked in par with Confucius in the "Ridicule Lin Ridicule Confucius" national political campaign. Since China's textbook adopts Confucius writing, then why is Lin's writing not excerpted into the textbook?

Peng Dehuai -- Marshal Peng tied with US in the Korean War. And he had the guts to tell Mao to halt the nonsensical practice to melt your kitchen's wok to increase national steel output during the Great Leap Forward.

Zhu neither earned the high praise of Lin who ranked with Confucius, nor did he have the gut to tell Mao what is right and what is wrong. Looks like a mama's boy to me.
That is exactly why pupils in Mainland China (the PRC) learn about Zhu and not about Lin or Peng. The latter two were disgraced at the height of their careers and fell from power. Zhu did not. That's like as if Chiang Kai Shek approved the teaching in schools of any writings by Zhang Xueliang (Chang Hsueh-liang) after 1936.

How did we stray into this politically sensitive side topic anyways?
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Old 01-08-2019, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
1,859 posts, read 3,423,221 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
i am not arguing about that. but throughout chinese history, dynasties change hands. So the language developed in Ming dynasty did not apply in Qing dynasty? Ping yin now is the standard for chinese language. it is the fact. Taiwan or some overseas chinese may resist this, but it just does not matter, as 99% percent of chinese speakers already adopted it.
I do not entirely agree with this statement. It does matter. Hanyu Pinyin may be official in the PRC and is the most widely used Mandarin romanization system in the entire world but by no means can it be considered a "standard" for the Chinese language. Some scholars even argue that Hanyu Pinyin is not the most efficient system for foreigners to learn Mandarin. If you read my second to last post, you'd find that other romanization systems such as Guoyeu-Romatzyh (GR) or Wade-Giles are still being used elsewhere in the world. In fact the GR edition of Chinese Primer, the collection of textbooks I used to learn Mandarin in high school (I used the Hanyu-Pinyin edition), is still used and still available for purchase through Amazon. These texts by the way are published by Princeton University, so they are more than legitimate.

https://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Prime.../dp/0691096023

You will still need to recognize some romanization schemes if you want to read older texts. I am an avid reader of Chinese history and I always see Chinese names not written in the Pinyin system. Jonathan Spence's The Search for Modern China for instance uses Pinyin much of the time but has at least one instance of GR because that chapter was devoted to describing the New Life Movement in 1934 and wanted to stay as authentic to Soong Meiling (Madame Chiang Kai Shek's) description as possible. Sometimes the book editor will insert a caption in the introduction to let readers know what romanization scheme is used throughout the book. You can laugh at how words are spelled in the other romanization schemes (I for one am not a fan of Wade-Giles) but you still need to recognize them and respect the opinions of others who may prefer those other systems to Pinyin.
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Old 01-08-2019, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,365 posts, read 549,081 times
Reputation: 1102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Peasant View Post
That is exactly why pupils in Mainland China (the PRC) learn about Zhu and not about Lin or Peng. The latter two were disgraced at the height of their careers and fell from power. Zhu did not. That's like as if Chiang Kai Shek approved the teaching in schools of any writings by Zhang Xueliang (Chang Hsueh-liang) after 1936.

How did we stray into this politically sensitive side topic anyways?
I checked the Chinese language textbooks published in Taiwan for Middle and High Schools. None of any writings from any political figures from Modern China is excerpted into the textbook. Writings from Lu Xun and Jin Yong are adopted. Writings from some famous Taiwanese writers like Yu Kwang-chung are also adopted.

Way back when KMT monopolized political power, there used to be an introductory page written by Chiang on the first page of textbook. But that era has long gone.

IMO the kids should be left alone from politics.

Anyway Taiwan's textbook can embrace Lu Xun's writing while China's textbook cannot embrace Hu Shih's writing. That really tells you something.

Well, Lu Xun was lucky in dying early. I don't see how he could survive anti-rightist movement and Cultural Revolution. But if he didn't die early, probably he would have also fled to Taiwan like Hu Shih did in 1949.
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Old 01-08-2019, 08:37 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,611,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Out of the 10 Marshals of PRC in 1950s, why chose Zhu's article but not any from the other nine Marshals?

IMO two other Marshals' works should be chosen as well.

Lin Biao -- Marshal Lin had achieved more military feats than Zhu in the Civil War. And after his unfortunate death, Lin ranked in par with Confucius in the "Ridicule Lin Ridicule Confucius" national political campaign. Since China's textbook adopts Confucius writing, then why is Lin's writing not excerpted into the textbook?

Peng Dehuai -- Marshal Peng tied with US in the Korean War. And he had the guts to tell Mao to halt the nonsensical practice to melt your kitchen's wok to increase national steel output during the Great Leap Forward.

Zhu neither earned the high praise of Lin who ranked with Confucius, nor did he have the gut to tell Mao what is right and what is wrong. Looks like a mama's boy to me.
Because Zhu De was a decent writer and his article on his mother is touching, with relatively high literature value. Peng never wrote anything like that. Lin, not sure.

Peng Dehuai's article was not used but there was an article describing his experiment on rice production, arguing against the Great Leap Forward. I learned it in elementary school Chinese class, probably grade 3 or something. I do not know if the article is still there. Most likely not.

Lin is still considered a criminal in China (no matter it is fair or not) due to his defection. No country in the world puts criminal's articles in children's textbook. Taiwan does not do it, the US does not do it, and so on.
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