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Old 01-08-2019, 12:38 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,639 posts, read 8,540,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Thanks to Iris Chang, many atrocities committed by Japan were widely known through her book "The Rape of Nanking". The book was very popular in US in '80s and '90s. Chang had made tour around US to introduce her book and I have attended one of her seminars.

Too bad she died young. She committed suicide during her research on a book about Bataan March. Likely she became depressed after deep dig into that part of history.

And "The Rape of Nanking" so far has not been translated into Japanese for publication.
Beat me to it! I'll delete mine....
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:45 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,639 posts, read 8,540,795 times
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I grew up with privilege of knowing a true Hero. I'm sure he did not embellish any of his experiences fighting the Japanese...Why they were not punished more is beyond me.....


https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FUX0BO2...ng=UTF8&btkr=1
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Old 01-08-2019, 05:47 PM
 
12,322 posts, read 18,433,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Lee View Post
Your analogy is not quite appropriate.

Iris was an American. She wrote the book in English. US was a neutral country at the time Rape of Nanking happened in 1937. It only participated in the war in 1941.

What you mentioned was what US had done during the Vietnam War. North Vietnam was the adversary of US. What the Vietnamese writers in Vietnam have written about US during the Vietnam War should be viewed with grain of salt.
Iris Chang indeed gave a good account of JIA attrocities in Nanking, I actuallly picked up this book in China years back. In brought recognition to the western world about Japan's conduct during the war, but this was already known in the rest of Asia. Amongst the old in Asia, there is almost universal disdain for Japanese because of their behavior in Asia, that's slowly changing as that generation dies off, but it's there.

But someone indicated something like "yeah why are US crimes also largely ignored"? I categorically and completly reject that idea! On contrast, Amercan's are preoccupied with it, it even has a name - "white mans guilt". This topic is an example of it, and just about every topic in the history forum a topic will start out about Genhgis Con and almost immediatly you will get a response saying "yeah but the US did this!!!!". It's like, huh? what? American's are very open and introspective about the sins of it's past, that's a good thing. But it also tends to be self-indulgent, and also has the the result of trivializing history. How can you compare the Nazi Holocaust to anything? You mention the holocaust and some idiot will come in and say "yeah but in Vietnam we Americans had My Lai massacre". It's like you are comparing a local massacre, indeed terrible, to genocide.

Funny thing about Vietnam. I've been there, took a tour of Hue. Now Vietnam now loves America, to them the American phase of the Vietnam war took place centuries ago. Likewise I love Vietnam, it's a beautiful country. But Vietnam will also not acknoledge it's war crimes, and funny once again American's know well about My Lai, they don't know about the 1,000s that North Vietnam summarily executed in Hue. We had a tour guide, Vietnamese obviously. I had one guy talk ask me about Hue. I told him "you know what happened here? Hue was a peaceful beutiful town, VC and NVA came in, rocketed everything in sight, and gathered up the civilians and brutally killed them, this guy (pointing to our VIet tour guide) can't talk about that, his government will put him in jail". Then I gave him the story of the Battle of Hue that this tour guide couldn't talk about.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:31 AM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,072 posts, read 1,473,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFP View Post
[/b]

I have noticed this systematic complete lack of empathy from East Asian countries for the weak, it must be a cultural thing to only respect strength and power and look down at the underdog. For this reason I'm glad the US has the biggest guns.
If you compare what Japan did during certain times during WWII why not use the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, Nazi Germany's treatment of undesirables, Belgium atrocities in the Congo or the numerous other instances of Western societies not showing any empathy for the weak and powerless around the world. Sure Japan didn't show any empathy to many of its victims, but neither did whole groups of other people who were more powerful than their victims. And also look at what Japan has done since the end of WWII. Maybe things have changed today but during China's growth into a world economic power Japan was one of their top providers of foreign aid.
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Old 01-10-2019, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,521 posts, read 3,108,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
If you compare what Japan did during certain times during WWII why not use the Trans-Atlantic slave trade, Nazi Germany's treatment of undesirables, Belgium atrocities in the Congo or the numerous other instances of Western societies not showing any empathy for the weak and powerless around the world. Sure Japan didn't show any empathy to many of its victims, but neither did whole groups of other people who were more powerful than their victims. And also look at what Japan has done since the end of WWII. Maybe things have changed today but during China's growth into a world economic power Japan was one of their top providers of foreign aid.

probably because it was more recent and we have video and evidence
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:43 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
probably because it was more recent and we have video and evidence
Nazi atrocities were just as recent, arguably showed even less empathy, and are no doubt better documented. Yet not as many are saying that Western, or more specifically German culture, is inclined to show no empathy to the weak. Yes, I know the Germany of today is vastly different than during WWII, but the same could be said of Japan, and really a lot of societies. IMO the biggest factor when people make statements lumping an entire region's culture into a specific box is unfamiliarity with a vastly different culture than their own. It's borderline ridiculous.
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Old 01-10-2019, 09:12 PM
 
Location: Earth
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and that's why the US should never leave germany and japan. They would both do it again if they had the chance
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:22 PM
 
Location: Honolulu
1,072 posts, read 1,473,845 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
and that's why the US should never leave germany and japan. They would both do it again if they had the chance
Not even close to reality. That's like saying Mongolia would try to conquer Asia and Europe again if they had the chance. There are reasons the US has troops stationed in those two countries, but what you mentioned is definitely not one of them.
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Old 01-11-2019, 12:13 AM
 
12,322 posts, read 18,433,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WannabeCPA View Post
Nazi atrocities were just as recent, arguably showed even less empathy, and are no doubt better documented. Yet not as many are saying that Western, or more specifically German culture, is inclined to show no empathy to the weak. Yes, I know the Germany of today is vastly different than during WWII, but the same could be said of Japan, and really a lot of societies. IMO the biggest factor when people make statements lumping an entire region's culture into a specific box is unfamiliarity with a vastly different culture than their own. It's borderline ridiculous.

Now we are getting from the "what" to the "why" of Japan. It's hard to explain. Both Germany and Japan practiced genocide on a scale unmatched in history but Japan stands out for the shear sickening brutality practiced by it's soldiers. Read this passage from Iris Chang's "Rape of Nanking":

"Chinese men were used for bayonet practice and in decapitation contests. An estimated 20,000 – 80,000 Chinese women were raped. Many soldiers went beyond rape to disembowel women, slice off their breasts, and nail them alive to walls. Fathers were forced to rape their daughters, and sons their mothers, as other family members watched. Not only did live burials, castration, the carving of organs, and the roasting of people become routine, but more diabolical tortures were practiced, such as hanging people by their tongues on iron hooks or burying people to their waists and watching them get torn apart by German shepherds. So sickening was the spectacle that even Nazis in the city were horrified, one proclaiming the massacre to be the work of bestial machinery"

One of the reasons that Germany developed it's death camps, besides creating an efficient means of murder, was so as to not to turn it's soldiers into psychopaths as they expected that, eventually, they would return back to a peaceful fatherland. Executions were talking it's toll on a normal soldier, effecting morale. Best to keep things unseen, even if Germans very well knew what was happening there. Thus the murder factories were created - clean, efficient, organized. For Japan, it's solders were TRAINED to be psychopaths. Why? The traditional bushido code was warped into something unrecgonizable by Imperial Japan of the 30s - the soldier lived and died to serve the emperor, racism to both westerners and fellow asians was taught. The "three alls" was drilled into there head - "kill all, burn all, loot all". Japanese soldiers were brutalized by it's officers, often beaten to death. Of course the lowest Japanese soldier would treat the next lowest - enemy civilians, the same or worse treatment. To do otherwise was weakness, a betrayel of the emperor. Surrender was weakness, mercy was weakness, EMPATHY WAS WEAKNESS. Thus - you had an army of psychopaths, Ted Bundy's marching across Asia.
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Old 01-11-2019, 07:30 AM
 
392 posts, read 400,489 times
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We were taught Japanese War Crimes in school, but there is a lot less supplemental cultural material (Holocaust survivors for example would speak at schools and etc, there are movies/books/shows about Nazi Germany and the Holocaust).

Naturally without that extra bit of cultural osmosis, most people probably wouldn't remember minor details. Not to mention most of Imperial Japan's victims either kept quiet about it to receive economic development aid during the stages they could've struck history issue when the iron washot (South Korea, ASEAN) or became our geopolitical foes (China).
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