U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2008, 01:22 PM
 
2,348 posts, read 3,924,646 times
Reputation: 2199

Advertisements

Oh yes, having masses of starving kids dying at the rate of thousands everyday from hunger is much more humane than making someone have an abortion.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2008, 02:55 PM
 
93 posts, read 305,100 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama View Post
fp1978
Your laissez-faire approach might work to make everyone feel great--for a while--what would you advocate if you knew your freedom from the dictates of power led to eventual collapse of the ability to thrive? Would you advocate intervention or just let it happen?
If you let it happen then that is fine-you stand by your principle-the right way or no way-I guess. If, however, you intervene with martial law and stern measures to temporarily avert the disaster, then you are simply waiting until it is too late to accomplish what the realists in countries of over a billion people and counting are trying to do before it is too late.
I hate being told what to do. I don't want to live under authoritarian or religious rule. If I did live in China though and was facing what they were facing for the generations to come, I would suck it up and support the one-child policy.
As far as the earthquake is concerned-this bunk about the one child policy making people childless supposes that in this disaster some of the children would have been saved. It is more likely that all would have perished as they would have been in the same place. Regardless, you don't have policy based on the what ifs of a natural disaster. The big picture for a billion people is what matters.
Let's look at this from a personal level rather than as an abstract problem of a faraway foreign culture. What if you, as a westerner (especially Americans) could dramatically improve global hunger, health, and quality of life around the world by reducing your consumption by 10%? Would you do it? Would you trade in your Hummer for a Civic and drink the Tall instead of the Venti Caramel Frappucino to save a Chinese child's life? We (myself included) are oblivious to how much energy, food, and other resources we consume, but it's STAGGERING!!!. Overpopulation is not even a remote problem right now...overconsumption may do us in, though!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2008, 09:50 PM
 
226 posts, read 1,033,141 times
Reputation: 69
Actually, when urban families have more than one child, and when rural families have more than two, they are assessed fines if they choose to keep the child. The child is considered "illegal", but they can be raised as long as the parents can afford unsubsidized education and to do without government benefits for the children. Those parents who work for the Chinese government are relieved of their jobs if they keep the child. There is a considerable amount of economic and social pressure not to have more children than the government permits. However, there is nothing beyond that to prevent families from having as many children as they want given the economic resources.

Also, following the Sichuan earthquake the one-child policy was clearified to the public in that families who lost children can have another. If families had an "illegal" child, that child can now become "legal" and receive the same benefits. Ophrans can be adopted and those orphans would not be counted into the limit of children families can have; only biological children would count. 1-child policy has exceptions after China quake - Yahoo! News (broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2008, 09:54 PM
 
1,350 posts, read 3,621,219 times
Reputation: 1264
"Overpopulation is not even a remote problem right now...overconsumption may do us in, though!"

Huh? Overpopulation isn't a problem in places like China and India? They are inflicting a one-child policy for the heck of it? Are you stating an opinion here? Based on what facts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2008, 11:58 PM
 
2,039 posts, read 5,779,857 times
Reputation: 574
Default WOW this really hit a nerve with me!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kwflconch View Post
The one child policy in china helped to bring the average number of children per women from 7 in 1970 to 1.7, which the government says has helped from an extra 400 million babies from being born. But the one child policy causes hundreds of millions of children to grow up being lonely from having no siblings which can create social problems. There is a large preference for sons rather than daughters to have someone take care of parents when they age and to carry on the family name. And women who are pregnant with a third child or more are forced to have abortions, which is killing a human being! I think its good that the policy has kept the population from soaring to 2 billion people or more but I dont think its good that children have to grow up to onlies and people to have forced abortions to keep population growth down.

I just recently read an article of a town in China where 41 women had to have forced abortions in one day. They were given an overload of drugs and they couldnt walk around for 48 hours and the women were also beaten because some of them didn't want to perform the abortions. I think this is insane the way the government treated the women. I think the policy should be limited to up to 4 children, so there wont be as many abortions and children can grow up with siblings.

What do you think?
I am going to do my best to not answer with an emotional point of view. However, because of my situation it may be very difficult to do, yet I will try to the best of my limited ability to explain why I feel the way I do about this topic.

I'd like to first say that "Tennis368fan" is correct in stating that the Chinese government does in fact allow more than more child per family; however, it is mostly common within wealthy families who can afford the penalties and within government workers who either leave their position or pay off the person in charge of keeping the birth rate figures.

That said, I actually agree with every single person who has commented thus far. The reason I do is because everyone has a valid point! Firstly, the planet Earth can only handle so many humans and the destruction of the Earth which occurs because of our lifestyles. However, 'most' (not all) places that do experience large birth rates do so because it is quite common for many children to die before the age of 5. Especially in places such as Mid Africa, South America, Haiti, etc.

In the most developed countries, I do feel we have a responsibility to not overpopulate. However, limiting a family to one child is sad in my opinion. As Phoenix_Talons so eloquently explained, what do you tell the families who abided by the law and only had one child who was either killed in a disaster, died from disease or died from an accident as a teen? What if these parents (ESPECIALLY the women) are too old to have anymore children? What do we tell them? Do we say, "Well, it was G-d's will?" Don't worry, you can always have more? Oh really??? What if the woman is past her fertilization age? What if she had a difficult time getting pregnant the first time? What if she suffered health problems and cannot possibly have anymore? What do WE - as warm-blooded, feeling, members of the same human race, tell these unfortunate people? "Too bad." "Sucks for you?"

I am in a similar position as we discuss this topic. I am too old to have anymore children - or so says my GYN-fertility specialist. I had the most loving, caring, intelligent, old soul of a son, who tragically died in an a freak accident and I have one surviving child now. She is 17 and independent. I have not slept more than two hours in a row in the past 2.5 years since my sons death. (See my profile for website to read full details)

I am in despair, and I have a "positive, upbeat, happy-going nature!" Yet I feel as though I could die at any moment. Or least, I'd really like to have a truck come by and run me over because I'd so not suicidal. What a family experiences after the tragic death of a child, ESPECIALLY when there are only one or two children in the household, is nearly indescribable.
I do not mean this in a harsh way, but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE understands what a life of hell a parent must live after their child dies - EXCEPT another grieving.

In fact, I am ashamed of my naiveté of a parents grief until it happened to me. I too, was like every other person who is faced with the uncomfortable situation of running into a grieving parent in the grocery store or school and trying to think of an excuse to get me the hell out of there as fast as possible. I am also guilty of pretending I did not see the grieving parent for fear they will cry in front of me or g-d forbid, what if their bad luck rubs off on me??? I did, what 99.9% of all other parents do when faced with a grieving parent coming in their direction - I ran the other way.

So here we are, making comments because we are either young and without children, content in the fact we have several, that we are still young and healthy enough to have more, or so damn sure that absolutely nothing will happen to the children we have now that we can so easily dismiss how these parents of aborted children, or dead children feel in countries where we are not there to see it for ourselves to access the situation by observing it ourselves.

The fact of the matter is, the world produces more than enough food to feed everyone. It is just not distributed in an effective way. It is possible to have more than one or two children providing we take care of what our carbon footprint is. (Which is much more involved than just driving a hybrid.)

So, in closing, everyone has valid points. How do we find a happy medium is the real question? How do we as a WORLD come together to solve these problems? There are solutions, but none of them will work unless we act as a collective nation and countries, and make the effort to work together to utilize the solutions that are already proven to be effective.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have had as many children as I could afford to feed and clothe on my own dime and teach them to give back to the planet Earth that has so graciously allowed us to thrive here.

Last edited by londonbarcelona; 06-02-2008 at 12:55 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2008, 12:29 AM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,452,744 times
Reputation: 1425
Quote:
Originally Posted by londonbarcelona View Post
I am going to do my best to not answer with an emotional point of view. However, because of my situation it may be very difficult to do, yet I will try to the best of my limited ability to explain why I feel the way I do about this topic.

I'd like to first say that "Tennis368fan" is correct in stating that the Chinese government does in fact allow more than more child per family; however, it is mostly common within wealthy families who can afford the penalties and within government workers who either leave their position or pay off the person in charge of keeping the birth rate figures.

That said, I actually agree with every single person who has commented thus far. The reason I do is because everyone has a valid point! Firstly, the planet Earth can only handle so many humans and the destruction of the Earth which occurs because of our lifestyles. However, 'most' (not all) places that do experience large birth rates do so because it is quite common for many children to die before the age of 5. Especially in places such as Mid Africa, South America, Haiti, etc.

In the most developed countries, I do feel we have a responsibility to not overpopulate. However, limiting a family to one child is sad in my opinion. As Phoenix_Talons so eloquently explained, what do you tell the families who abided by the law and only had one child who was either killed in a disaster, died from disease or died from an accident as a teen? What if these parents (ESPECIALLY the women) are too old to have anymore children? What do we tell them? Do we say, "Well, it was G-d's will?" Don't worry, you can always have more? Oh really??? What if the woman is past her fertilization age? What if she had a difficult time getting pregnant the first time? What if she suffered health problems and cannot possibly have anymore? What do WE - as warm-blooded, feeling, members of the same human race, tell these unfortunate people? "Too bad." "Sucks for you?"

I am in a similar position as we discuss this topic. I am too old to have anymore children - or so says my GYN-fertility specialist. I had the most loving, caring, intelligent, old soul of a son, who tragically died in an a freak accident and I have one surviving child now. She is 17 and independent. I have not slept more than two hours in a row in the past 2.5 years since my sons death. (See my profile for website to read full details)

I am in despair, and I have a "positive, upbeat, happy-going nature!" Yet I feel as though I could die at any moment. Or least, I'd really like to have a truck come by and run me over because I'd so not suicidal. What a family experiences after the tragic death of a child, ESPECIALLY when there are only one or two children in the household, is nearly indescribable.
I do not mean this in a harsh way, but NO ONE and I mean NO ONE understands what a life of hell a parent must live after their child dies - EXCEPT another grieving.

In fact, I am ashamed of my naiveté of a parents grief until it happened to me. I too, was like every other person who is faced with the uncomfortable situation of running into a grieving parent in the grocery store or school and trying to think of an excuse to get me the hell out of there as fast as possible. I am also guilty of pretending I did not see the grieving parent for fear they will cry in front of me or g-d forbid, what if their bad luck rubs off on me??? I did, what 99.9% of all other parents do when faced with a grieving parent coming in their direction - I ran the other way.

So here we are, making comments because we are either young and without children, content in the fact we have several, that we are still young and healthy enough to have more, or so damn sure that absolutely nothing will happen to the children we have now that we can so easily dismiss how these parents of aborted children, or dead children feel in countries where we are not there to see it for ourselves to access the situation by observing the it ourselves.

The fact of the matter is, the world produces more than enough food to feed everyone. It is just not distributed in an effective way. It is possible to have more than one or two children providing we take care of what our carbon footprint is. (Which is much more involved than just driving a hybrid.)

So, in closing, everyone has valid points. How do we find a happy medium in the real question? How do we as a WORLD come together to solve these problems? There are solutions, but none of them will work unless we are a collective nation and countries, make the effort to work to gether to utilize the solutions that are already proven to be effective.

If I had to do it all over again, I would have had as many children as I could afford to feed and clothe on my own dime and teach them to give back to the planet Earth that has so graciously allowed us to thrive here.
I'm so sorry for your loss... there are no words...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-02-2008, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Virginia
654 posts, read 1,100,885 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
Originally Posted by laysayfair View Post
I agree. I am appalled that no concern was expressed for the 40 women physically forced to have abortions and some beaten. Can you imagine the distress of a women who wants her child being held down while it is killed in her body? That sounds like the plot for a horror movie. No outrage on this thread, no concern and no compassion for those individual women. If the Chinese government had been forcing those women to HAVE babies then these same posters would have been outraged. Dictators and dictators-in-training all have the same theme--They love mankind, it's PEOPLE they can't stand.
These people make me sick beyond belief. More and more control over every single aspect of people's lives is all they ever advocate. It's their answer to any and every real or made up (such as manmade Climate Change) problem. And it's no surprise that this is where the cult of Climate Change™ was heading all along. It should be obvious to any rational person that it is all nothing more than yet another excuse for taking away personal liberty and giving more power and control to our benevolent overlords, Big Daddy Government. If I said what I truely feel about these disgusting tyrants I would surely be banned from these boards so I'll just leave it at that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2008, 08:42 PM
 
93 posts, read 305,100 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tama View Post
"Overpopulation is not even a remote problem right now...overconsumption may do us in, though!"

Huh? Overpopulation isn't a problem in places like China and India? They are inflicting a one-child policy for the heck of it? Are you stating an opinion here? Based on what facts?
The facts are based on logical assumptions about the way we currently live. For example, by necessity, Americans are FINALLY beginning to think about how much gas they use in their cars. If we all drove cars that got 30mpg or more, then there would be more fuel available globally to help ease the costs of living and the hardships in India and China. This is not even considering the health benefits of efficient autos. I stand firmly by my belief that if you extend this logic, we have more than enough food, more than enough potable water, and certainly more than enough space to accommodate even 100 billion people if we live more modestly. I could fit about 12 people comfortably on my property that currently meets the needs of 2(.5) I could feed a village in Bangladesh for a month with my monthly Starbucks budget. Do I want to make those changes...no, but I could easily do so. Think about it!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2008, 09:04 PM
 
2,348 posts, read 3,924,646 times
Reputation: 2199
You are really uninformed and crazy if you really think that Earth can hold 100 billion people.

So I guess you think the whole world should just be some packed in crap hole with everyone having a poor quality of lfie, no animals, no aprks, nothing but packed cities and farms?

You have obviously never had an ecology class or anything close to it. You do not even possess the fundenmentals of what is involved in supporting life on Earth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-03-2008, 09:37 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,452,744 times
Reputation: 1425
Quote:
Originally Posted by k350 View Post
You are really uninformed and crazy if you really think that Earth can hold 100 billion people.

So I guess you think the whole world should just be some packed in crap hole with everyone having a poor quality of lfie, no animals, no aprks, nothing but packed cities and farms?

You have obviously never had an ecology class or anything close to it. You do not even possess the fundenmentals of what is involved in supporting life on Earth.
What is the number of people the earth can hold according to all your learning in Ecology class?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top