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Old 06-22-2017, 11:25 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 807,260 times
Reputation: 1840

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
No Chinese city is that international and you aren't considering all the Chinese who visit from rural areas. There are international neighborhoods and areas in the biggest cities, but get out of the core and it becomes 99% Chinese very quickly.

There is a difference between a city like Shanghai and Zhengzhou. In Shanghai a foreigner won't get stared at as much, but it still happens frequently. I caught people taking pictures of me everytime we went out and people would ask if they could take pictures with me. I personally don't mind, but after a few months it gets tiring, but I spend a lot of time in Henan province, so getting back to Shanghai can seem very international from that perspective.

The most diverse city in China is not as diverse as any average city in the US. There is far more diversity in Kansas City then Beijing or Shanghai. I mean a lot more and KC has nothing on London or NYC.
The diversity in America was introduced by white settlers who brought African slaves and opened border for cheap Mexican labor. Diversity with segregation and racial tensions isn't better than being homogenous. The concept of racism is as foreign as fully loaded lifted truck to most Chinese before the arrival of petulant westerners. China, like most other Asian countries, are free of social issues like segregation, hate crimes, hate groups(KKK, BLM). Why do you expect racial diversity when you travel to the old world?

Shanghai isn't on par with NYC, but it's way more vibrant than Kansas City.

Henan is indeed awful even by Chinese standard, it's practically the Beaumont in China. I won't recommend it to any tourist.

 
Old 06-23-2017, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,006 posts, read 3,467,932 times
Reputation: 8114
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The diversity in America was introduced by white settlers who brought African slaves and opened border for cheap Mexican labor. Diversity with segregation and racial tensions isn't better than being homogenous. The concept of racism is as foreign as fully loaded lifted truck to most Chinese before the arrival of petulant westerners. China, like most other Asian countries, are free of social issues like segregation, hate crimes, hate groups(KKK, BLM). Why do you expect racial diversity when you travel to the old world?

Shanghai isn't on par with NYC, but it's way more vibrant than Kansas City.

Henan is indeed awful even by Chinese standard, it's practically the Beaumont in China. I won't recommend it to any tourist.
You lost me entirely with this post. Just another myopic talking head. There are plenty of social issues festering within China that could be open for discussion. Shall we forego pleasant discussion and just head that direction instead?
 
Old 06-23-2017, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 807,260 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nor Cal Wahine View Post
You lost me entirely with this post. Just another myopic talking head. There are plenty of social issues festering within China that could be open for discussion. Shall we forego pleasant discussion and just head that direction instead?
Sorry I was trying to point out that racism and hate crimes are very rare in China. Yes, there are plenty of social issues within China, but in general foreigners are not affected.

By the way, I think Yunnan could be a good place for your next vacation if you are adventurous enough. I've heard a lot of great things about Yunnan, but I haven't been there yet because I'm sort of anxious about altitude sickness.
 
Old 06-23-2017, 08:54 AM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,640,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
The diversity in America was introduced by white settlers who brought African slaves and opened border for cheap Mexican labor. Diversity with segregation and racial tensions isn't better than being homogenous. The concept of racism is as foreign as fully loaded lifted truck to most Chinese before the arrival of petulant westerners. China, like most other Asian countries, are free of social issues like segregation, hate crimes, hate groups(KKK, BLM). Why do you expect racial diversity when you travel to the old world?

Shanghai isn't on par with NYC, but it's way more vibrant than Kansas City.

Henan is indeed awful even by Chinese standard, it's practically the Beaumont in China. I won't recommend it to any tourist.
I'm going to ignore the whole racism part as that's a whole different subject and if you were black in China I doubt you would say any of that. My point is that Chinese cities are not diverse like any other international cities and they are not.

Vibrancy isn't the same thing as diverse or international. Henan isn't the worst part of China, but it's not great.

I've spent a week in Yunnan and it's very pretty, but it's poorer then Henan, but also not as polluted. Kunming is nice, but the rural areas and smaller cities are super poor in Yunnan. I've been to 6 different Chinese provinces and Yunnan people are the least friendly, in fact I felt so unwelcome I won't go back to Yunnan. Next trip I will go to Guangxi.

Henan isn't a travel destination as there is too much manufacturing and it's a very dense province. But there is a lot to see, it's where Chinese civilization started.
 
Old 06-23-2017, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 807,260 times
Reputation: 1840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I'm going to ignore the whole racism part as that's a whole different subject and if you were black in China I doubt you would say any of that. My point is that Chinese cities are not diverse like any other international cities and they are not.

Vibrancy isn't the same thing as diverse or international. Henan isn't the worst part of China, but it's not great.

I've spent a week in Yunnan and it's very pretty, but it's poorer then Henan, but also not as polluted. Kunming is nice, but the rural areas and smaller cities are super poor in Yunnan. I've been to 6 different Chinese provinces and Yunnan people are the least friendly, in fact I felt so unwelcome I won't go back to Yunnan. Next trip I will go to Guangxi.

Henan isn't a travel destination as there is too much manufacturing and it's a very dense province. But there is a lot to see, it's where Chinese civilization started.
Yunnan is extremely diverse, not international but very diverse. There are a lot of indigenous people with their own language, culture and history. They are very poor but they manage to survive and maintain their lifestyle.

I don't know whether Yunnan is less friendly than other provinces in China, but Yunnan is known for its tourist traps(primarily targeting domestic tourists from more affluent parts of China). Yunnan is for truly adventurous tourists. I don't think Guangxi is going to be much better than Yunnan.

Without prior knowledge in Chinese history, it's hard to appreciate the civilization. The only thing you know is everything is at least 3000 years. Even worse, historic sites are not well preserved. Henan is a crap hole.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 01:22 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
The most diverse city in China is not as diverse as any average city in the US. There is far more diversity in Kansas City then Beijing or Shanghai. I mean a lot more and KC has nothing on London or NYC.
That might be true, but keep in mind that Chinese cities do not aspire "diversity" which is so advocated by western countries. Most Chinese people do not want diversity (a mix of people from different race, religion and culture), and they view it as a negative thing for their quality of life. So I guess they are fine with not being as "diverse".

Also, the Chinese (and east Asians in general) are very racists. If they want foreigners, they are solely talking about a small number of white people from rich countries, and they mostly don't welcome black/brown/South Asian/Arabs etc in order to be "diverse" and they will say it to your face.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 01:28 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
Sorry I was trying to point out that racism and hate crimes are very rare in China. Yes, there are plenty of social issues within China, but in general foreigners are not affected.
on this you are wrong.

the Chinese in general are very racist. Its is seldom a problem because there are not many non-Chinese people, that's all. If you really live in China and have daily conversation with Chinese people, you will know they despise pretty much all races other than Caucasians from first world countries. They even look down upon Indians and Southeast Asians, definitely black, mexicans and arabs.

Hate crimes, not so much because they are practical people and don't let some sacred book tell them what to hate.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 02:52 AM
 
252 posts, read 100,717 times
Reputation: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
That might be true, but keep in mind that Chinese cities do not aspire "diversity" which is so advocated by western countries. Most Chinese people do not want diversity (a mix of people from different race, religion and culture), and they view it as a negative thing for their quality of life. So I guess they are fine with not being as "diverse".

Also, the Chinese (and east Asians in general) are very racists. If they want foreigners, they are solely talking about a small number of white people from rich countries, and they mostly don't welcome black/brown/South Asian/Arabs etc in order to be "diverse" and they will say it to your face.
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
on this you are wrong.

the Chinese in general are very racist. Its is seldom a problem because there are not many non-Chinese people, that's all. If you really live in China and have daily conversation with Chinese people, you will know they despise pretty much all races other than Caucasians from first world countries. They even look down upon Indians and Southeast Asians, definitely black, mexicans and arabs.

Hate crimes, not so much because they are practical people and don't let some sacred book tell them what to hate.
There is an on-going discussion on a Mississauga woman who demanded a white doctor for her sick son. If one goes to a pet shop to buy a white poodle or a black poodle, it is fine. If she had phrased it with PC, a Dr White (Smith) or a Dr Black (Naidu), there would be no excitement generated. No charges as there is no case here by the RCMP. I suspect the underlying problem is a class issue, as she felt trapped in a less desirable neighborhood.

The Chinese discriminate against their less prosperous brethren, just as they do with the other races that you mentioned above. It isn't a caste issue, but definitely a class issue.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 04:49 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,262,981 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by orbiter View Post
There is an on-going discussion on a Mississauga woman who demanded a white doctor for her sick son. If one goes to a pet shop to buy a white poodle or a black poodle, it is fine. If she had phrased it with PC, a Dr White (Smith) or a Dr Black (Naidu), there would be no excitement generated. No charges as there is no case here by the RCMP. I suspect the underlying problem is a class issue, as she felt trapped in a less desirable neighborhood.

The Chinese discriminate against their less prosperous brethren, just as they do with the other races that you mentioned above. It isn't a caste issue, but definitely a class issue.
Yes, you are right.

It is not race per se strictly speaking but it is not always clear. I don't think a Chinese would look at a Bulgarian more favorably than a Singaporean or Japanese. However, the general perception is they dislike people with darker skin than their own. A white nobody will probably have more luck dating Chinese girls in Shanghai than a successful and charming black person.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 12:31 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,272 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Yes, you are right.

It is not race per se strictly speaking but it is not always clear. I don't think a Chinese would look at a Bulgarian more favorably than a Singaporean or Japanese. However, the general perception is they dislike people with darker skin than their own. A white nobody will probably have more luck dating Chinese girls in Shanghai than a successful and charming black person.
You don't really understand China culture and people. Average Chinese don't really like or hate other races. For average Chinese in China especially those from the rural, they have never interacted with other races. Their feelings to others is neutral and a matter of curiosity. Chinese culture is deeply ingrained in money and knowledge. If you go to China, you either show them how wealth you are e.g. living in these top hotels or you share your knowledge with them or help them on some complex subject e.g. electronic design, business venture. They will treat you like a king. Trust me on that. Otherwise, if you stay there long enough, they feel you are a drag to their society. They will have a negative perception of you.
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