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Old 06-24-2017, 03:54 PM
 
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I realize this is a very old post. However, with many Chinese now traveling internationally, I have read a considerable amount about how "rude" they are. I think what is considered rude by Americans is really just a difference in culture. Spitting, urinating in an "unexpected" places, differences in table manners - these things can be surprising/shocking to outsiders. In countries where population is so large (China and India) people push, cut you off, etc. because many times they need to do that in order to survive - in order to get their work done. I don't think Americans should go to another country and then complain that the people are "different" or that things are not the "same" as they are at home.

 
Old 06-24-2017, 04:21 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,637,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
That might be true, but keep in mind that Chinese cities do not aspire "diversity" which is so advocated by western countries. Most Chinese people do not want diversity (a mix of people from different race, religion and culture), and they view it as a negative thing for their quality of life. So I guess they are fine with not being as "diverse".

Also, the Chinese (and east Asians in general) are very racists. If they want foreigners, they are solely talking about a small number of white people from rich countries, and they mostly don't welcome black/brown/South Asian/Arabs etc in order to be "diverse" and they will say it to your face.
I agree with all of that. I was simply pointing out that China's major cities are not as international as major western cities. You are right, most Chinese people don't want diversity. They are a collectivist society and individualism isn't important or strived for.

I agree that Asians (in Asia) are quite racist, but sometimes people forget that racism is not always negative. Asians think all white people and jews are rich, white people sleep around easily, and all black people are poor and criminals. Obviously there are exceptions and younger people may have more open minds, but that is the typical Asian mindset. China has deported the majority of the African people from their country as an example, but foreigners from countries like the US, UK, Canada, Australia will be welcomed with open arms and will be treated completely differently. If you are a white person from any of those aforementioned countries you can go a whole month without paying for a single meal or drink.

Any foreigner will occasionally meet hostile people in China, but it's fairly rare for white people. We were in Shanghai once and my wife (who is Chinese) got called a traitor for being with me by some random street vendor. We were in an international area too which made it strange.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 06:09 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I agree with all of that. I was simply pointing out that China's major cities are not as international as major western cities. You are right, most Chinese people don't want diversity. They are a collectivist society and individualism isn't important or strived for.
.

You got it all wrong. Chinese can be a collectivist society or an individualistic society as each Chinese want. Also China is a very law-abiding country. That is the reason why it is one of the safest nations in the world. They don't really want to favor one foreign group over the others. Usually people from the third-world countries overstay their visa limits and don't want to pay fines when they overstay and break the law. In the West, you always have all kind of excuses to defend yourselves. In China, once you break the law, you have to pay. I think the Chinese law is very lenient on them for not sentencing them to work in hard labor camp after breaking the law on their overstaying. On the other hand, people from the first-world usually are law-abiding. Very fews to my knowledge overstay their limits. They return to their countries promptly and reapply before their visa expires. They don't have these kind of problems.

You will be surprise on how the rich people or the upper middle class in China think about the whites. One day when China GDP per capital surpass the level of the West, Chinese will be looking down at the West. Chinese culture again is deeply ingrained in money and knowledge. They will respect if you have money or knowledge. If you have one or the other to offer, you will be truly living in paradise in China.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 805,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I agree with all of that. I was simply pointing out that China's major cities are not as international as major western cities. You are right, most Chinese people don't want diversity. They are a collectivist society and individualism isn't important or strived for.

I agree that Asians (in Asia) are quite racist, but sometimes people forget that racism is not always negative. Asians think all white people and jews are rich, white people sleep around easily, and all black people are poor and criminals. Obviously there are exceptions and younger people may have more open minds, but that is the typical Asian mindset. China has deported the majority of the African people from their country as an example, but foreigners from countries like the US, UK, Canada, Australia will be welcomed with open arms and will be treated completely differently. If you are a white person from any of those aforementioned countries you can go a whole month without paying for a single meal or drink.

Any foreigner will occasionally meet hostile people in China, but it's fairly rare for white people. We were in Shanghai once and my wife (who is Chinese) got called a traitor for being with me by some random street vendor. We were in an international area too which made it strange.
People get deported because they are illegal, not because they are Black or Mexican. If you have the proper document, you won't be deported.

Without PC nonsense, the correlation between country of origin and the possibility of overstaying the visa is statistically significant. Japanese citizens are allowed to visit the U.S visa-free, but Chinese and Indians do not have the convenience. It's not a race thing.

China deports African illegals, the US deports Hispanic illegals. Does it mean China dislike Africans more and the U.S hates Hispanic more? No, because they are the ones who decide to be illegal.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 10:04 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,637,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
You got it all wrong. Chinese can be a collectivist society or an individualistic society as each Chinese want. Also China is a very law-abiding country. That is the reason why it is one of the safest nations in the world. They don't really want to favor one foreign group over the others. Usually people from the third-world countries overstay their visa limits and don't want to pay fines when they overstay and break the law. In the West, you always have all kind of excuses to defend yourselves. In China, once you break the law, you have to pay. I think the Chinese law is very lenient on them for not sentencing them to work in hard labor camp after breaking the law on their overstaying. On the other hand, people from the first-world usually are law-abiding. Very fews to my knowledge overstay their limits. They return to their countries promptly and reapply before their visa expires. They don't have these kind of problems.

You will be surprise on how the rich people or the upper middle class in China think about the whites. One day when China GDP per capital surpass the level of the West, Chinese will be looking down at the West. Chinese culture again is deeply ingrained in money and knowledge. They will respect if you have money or knowledge. If you have one or the other to offer, you will be truly living in paradise in China.
The vast majority of Chinese think the same way and have the same values. It is not as valued to do ones own thing. It is a very homogeneous society. Even the minority groups in China live a typical life of a Chinese person.

The rest of that I agree with. China is definitely a law and order country and it's very safe. I have nothing against that. None of us will be alive when China's per capita GDP tops western countries. I'm not saying it can't happen, but not for a while.

I love China, but it can be a very materialistic and narcissistic society. My wife's family is quite wealthy actually and their friends and relatives are too. It's a very class oriented society, wealthy people don't tend to socialize with poorer people. Wealthy Chinese look down on everyone. It's quite sad imo. I have a wealthy Chinese cousin who is a horrible human being, she's been a spoiled brat and thinks she is better then everyone. She's the most self centered person I've ever met, like someone out of a tv show. Luckily we seldom see her.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 10:09 PM
 
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If you guys think China doesn't favor whites over blacks, then I'm not going to argue, but that's reality. Yes there are illegal Africans in the Shenzhen area and Guangzhou area, and yes they were deported, but if you are a black American and you try to get a job and a white American is your competition, the white guy is going to get the job everytime. What that has to do with US politics, I have no idea.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 10:14 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 805,408 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
You got it all wrong. Chinese can be a collectivist society or an individualistic society as each Chinese want. Also China is a very law-abiding country. That is the reason why it is one of the safest nations in the world. They don't really want to favor one foreign group over the others. Usually people from the third-world countries overstay their visa limits and don't want to pay fines when they overstay and break the law. In the West, you always have all kind of excuses to defend yourselves. In China, once you break the law, you have to pay. I think the Chinese law is very lenient on them for not sentencing them to work in hard labor camp after breaking the law on their overstaying. On the other hand, people from the first-world usually are law-abiding. Very fews to my knowledge overstay their limits. They return to their countries promptly and reapply before their visa expires. They don't have these kind of problems.

You will be surprise on how the rich people or the upper middle class in China think about the whites. One day when China GDP per capital surpass the level of the West, Chinese will be looking down at the West. Chinese culture again is deeply ingrained in money and knowledge. They will respect if you have money or knowledge. If you have one or the other to offer, you will be truly living in paradise in China.
He probably learned a lot from the textbooks.He doesn't have any concrete example to back his claim.

The textbook says Canada is a salad bowl and the US is a melting pot, but anyone with the slightest real life experience probably knows that the segregated US is not a melting pot.

The textbook is also inaccurate on the individualistic/collectivism thing. The only people who sincerely favor collectivism are the white liberals who want division in the name of diversity. They love dividing the people by race, by belief, by nation of origin, by sexual orientation. They judge Asian people, but they don't want to be judged based on their race.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 10:29 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,637,440 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
He probably learned a lot from the textbooks.He doesn't have any concrete example to back his claim.

The textbook says Canada is a salad bowl and the US is a melting pot, but anyone with the slightest real life experience probably knows that the segregated US is not a melting pot.

The textbook is also inaccurate on the individualistic/collectivism thing. The only people who sincerely favor collectivism are the white liberals who want division in the name of diversity. They love dividing the people by race, by belief, by nation of origin, by sexual orientation. They judge Asian people, but they don't want to be judged based on their race.
Actually I was homeschooled, I've lived in China, been to 6 different Chinese provinces, and have a Chinese wife. I'm just being realistic. People are judged by their race, nationality, sex, sexuality, religion, weight, height, wealth, etc etc. Some people and people groups judge more then others. That's reality, face it or don't. Some people assimilate and some don't. Why everything has to be made political with you, I don't know.

Here's an interesting article you can read if you like.

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/ar...-china/277878/

Last edited by Mattks; 06-24-2017 at 10:50 PM..
 
Old 06-24-2017, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 805,408 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
If you guys think China doesn't favor whites over blacks, then I'm not going to argue, but that's reality. Yes there are illegal Africans in the Shenzhen area and Guangzhou area, and yes they were deported, but if you are a black American and you try to get a job and a white American is your competition, the white guy is going to get the job everytime. What that has to do with US politics, I have no idea.
Since your understanding of Chinese politics is very rudimentary, analogies may help.

You have just changed your point. Your previous claim that deporting Africans is racism turned out to be totally invalid. It seems that you've realized that you made a false claim.

In your previous post, you mentioned the country of origin and race. You seemed to hint that White people from poorer countries(let's say Russia) are not treated that well. In fact, China favors citizens from more affluent countries, Japanese people are the favorite. Westerners occasionally misbehave, but Japanese people rarely make a scene. Race per se isn't a concern.

However, things are changing. With the arrival of poor White Americans moving to China with no money, Chinese in Shanghai have learned to tell the difference between affluent Whites and poor Whites. If you are believed to be a poor White American looking for freebies in China, you won't be treated with much respect.

I don't know how hard it is for Black Americans to get a job in China. Most expats I've met in Shanghai work for American multinational corporations. I've met one Black guy working for Citigroup, but most expats are White.

Do China favor whites over blacks? I guess the answer is yes, but the underlying reason might be different from what you believe.

I'm not saying Chinese are angels who believe people are equal. But in general Chinese don't really believe one race is inherently superior to another.

By the way, with all the white American privilege, you are still not pleased and feel "unwelcomed". I have no idea.
 
Old 06-24-2017, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
1,804 posts, read 805,408 times
Reputation: 1839
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Actually I was homeschooled, I've lived in China, been to 6 different Chinese provinces, and have a Chinese wife. I'm just being realistic. People are judged by their race, nationality, sex, sexuality, religion, weight, height, wealth, etc etc. Some people and people groups judge more then others. That's reality, face it or don't. Some people assimilate and some don't. Why everything has to be made political with you, I don't know.

Here's an interesting article you can read if you like.

https://www.theatlantic.com/china/ar...-china/277878/
I am glad that you are finally right this time.

Black people suffer from racism in virtually every non-African country. It's not really worse in China.

I read the article, it makes a lot of sense. Be aware that the bias toward Blacks has a lot to do with wealth. It's the fact that all African countries are poor plus African Americans are poorer than White Americans that leads Chinese to believe Blacks are more likely to be in financial trouble, dependable on welfare paid by taxpayers.
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