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I would rather go to Japan. The Chinese are very xenophobic. There was a blog about an african american man living there on some kind of business or college venture. He was always describing how much of an outsider the Chinese treat him. If he goes on the bus or subway, some Chinese litterally get up and sit elsewhere. And this is not the first blog about China. There are many others as well that detailed their meloncholy experiences in China. Well it makes no difference to me. I only wanted to go to China to eat some authentic Chinese food.
Can you send a link to the blog because this isn't what I've seen in China. From what I've seen, Chinese could care less who they sit next to. Not saying they're not racist by US standards, but they tend to express it a bit more subtly, at least by US standards.
Obama's half-brother lives in China and he seems to like it. Of course, he's a well-educated businessman. African immigrants who sell petty goods probably don't get treated anywhere as well.
The point is, there's a lot of texture to examine.
Can you send a link to the blog because this isn't what I've seen in China. From what I've seen, Chinese could care less who they sit next to. Not saying they're not racist by US standards, but they tend to express it a bit more subtly, at least by US standards.
Obama's half-brother lives in China and he seems to like it. Of course, he's a well-educated businessman. African immigrants who sell petty goods probably don't get treated anywhere as well.
The point is, there's a lot of texture to examine.
While I mentioned racism before to admit that racism exists, I agree. Most Chinese people wouldn't seem to care much. I'm not black, hbut ave known known black travelers, teachers, etc... It didn't seem to be much of an issue for them. I wanted to give this person the benefit of the doubt because I'd hate the person to go, especially with preconceived notions, and then be sensitive to every potential or perceived slight. Oftentimes we see what we believe.
Also as I state, this kind of racism exists everywhere. I'd say that Chinese are less xenophobic than many other countries, as a whole. THe bigger judgements tend to be on education levels, or within China, on the rural/urban divide.
Last edited by bluebeard; 02-24-2010 at 09:08 PM..
Yes and no. The government is still very heavy-handed when it comes to things like media censorship, crime and punishment, and human rights/personal freedom,
What personal freedom is restricted? I'm not sure a lot of individual freedoms are restricted anymore.
Furthermore, ideas of freedom are cultural. One person's freedom is another's restriction. The US has a strong emphasis on individual freedom. Not everyone wants these to the same extent.
While I agree a political opening up, and most importantly a well-developed and independent justice system would be nice, you must compare China's current state to other countries at the same political and economic development levels. Comparing them to the US is not particularly relevant. Some might argue that dealing with economic inequality and environmental issues is more of an urgent priority. The West might be afraid of China, but there's still no guarantee of its long-term stability and this is still of utmost importance in most people's minds.
And compare the personal freedoms to 30-50 years ago. Its light-years away from what it used to be. World surveys consistently show that Chinese people are happy with the direction their country is going. Many many not be happy with the political system as a whole, but the fact is people's lives today are better in degrees unimaginable to them a generation ago.
Like I said, if you require a place to be politically and economically developed as the US, you are knocking out the majority of the world. Criticism is ok, but it must be balanced and informed. Most importantly, approached with a truly open mind. Many people can be exposed to a place and never really understand it. There are many in the US that have lived for 10 years that still have uninformed opinions. Likewise, people can talk to a select group of Chinese people, read a select number of stories, travel and give credibility to a select type of information that conforms to their pre-existing beliefs and value sets. This is not experiencing and understanding the true culture.
Last edited by bluebeard; 02-24-2010 at 09:06 PM..
Bluebeard is dead on..........Very correct about comparing China to countries in the same boat as they are.....and not with the U.S. or Western Europe.
This is probably throwing fuel on the fire, but the main root of my anger towards the government of China is their occupation of Tibet. For me, there's just no getting around it.
I have very similar anger towards my own country (USA), because as much as I love it, I can't ignore how much damage we've caused not just outside our borders, but to ourselves and our children as well.
But I'm going to take China-Materials' point of view, and try to remember that no matter where we are, we're for the most part just people trying to get through the day with our souls intact.
Can you send a link to the blog because this isn't what I've seen in China. From what I've seen, Chinese could care less who they sit next to. Not saying they're not racist by US standards, but they tend to express it a bit more subtly, at least by US standards.
Obama's half-brother lives in China and he seems to like it. Of course, he's a well-educated businessman. African immigrants who sell petty goods probably don't get treated anywhere as well.
The point is, there's a lot of texture to examine.
I've long gone forgot where or what the adress is to that blog. It was quite awhile ago though. He was very detailed about it that's all I know. But what about that story about the famous chinese 'black' girl that hit headlines about a month ago? She was the chinese born and bred half-black young girl who was in some kind of TV competition and she lost because of her skin color. Her mother is full Chinese and raised her by herself or something. It was really heartbreaking.
I definitely wouldn't say on a global scale that the Chinese are xenophobic, in general. However, many people's primary exposure to black people is through American movies, so obviously will have the prejudiced notion that they are dangerous. This is unfortunate. However, given much of the world is in the same situation, including Japan, I'm not sure Japan is much better towards blacks. except for an increased appreciation of hip-hop culture compared to China: Japan Prejudice and Black Sambo - TIME
As for general xenophobia, I would say Japan is generally though of as being at least as much of a xenophobic country.
agree. just like white tourists being stared at. if someone has never in their lives seen an actual white person, then he/she would likely stare. not being rude, just curiosity. alot of chinese, especially rural dwellers, haven't had any worldly exposures yet.
the reverse can happen too. a former co-worker went to some small town in midwest u.s. a few years ago. i guess the residences there don't see/interact with asians often, since he received quite a few stares from regular passer-bys. some teenagers playing in their yard taunted/yelled 'ching-chong-ching" to him. worse was that all along their parents laughed and even joined in the chorus.
While I mentioned racism before to admit that racism exists, I agree. Most Chinese people wouldn't seem to care much. I'm not black, hbut ave known known black travelers, teachers, etc... It didn't seem to be much of an issue for them. I wanted to give this person the benefit of the doubt because I'd hate the person to go, especially with preconceived notions, and then be sensitive to every potential or perceived slight. Oftentimes we see what we believe.
Also as I state, this kind of racism exists everywhere. I'd say that Chinese are less xenophobic than many other countries, as a whole. THe bigger judgements tend to be on education levels, or within China, on the rural/urban divide.
i've read it's more economic discimination more than racial (not that this doesn't exists). chinese city dweller disciminate against rural migrant workers. if you look poor/uneducated, you stand a higher chance of being look down on, regardless of race.
This is probably throwing fuel on the fire, but the main root of my anger towards the government of China is their occupation of Tibet. For me, there's just no getting around it.
I have very similar anger towards my own country (USA), because as much as I love it, I can't ignore how much damage we've caused not just outside our borders, but to ourselves and our children as well.
But I'm going to take China-Materials' point of view, and try to remember that no matter where we are, we're for the most part just people trying to get through the day with our souls intact.
Cheers
Wait, I thought you hated China because it's communist?
Many of our opinion are based on emotion and associations, rather than rational and evidence-based decision making. We can all find reasons to dislike a group of people. You just have to dig for it and broadcast it.
I dont know how many ways I can say the same things: unless you understand the history and culture, you dont really get to make blanket judgements. You cant compare China to industrialized Western countries, and there is really no domestic or foreign analogy to the Tibetan situation in the US now, or really ever. If the US is so bad, then why are you supporting it? What countries would you "support"? The US and many other countries are doing plenty of "wrong" things in ways you have a better understanding of. Why don't you focus on that? Don't you think it'd be weird if a bunch of Chinese people came over to Europe and protested for Basque independence or got involved in the Ireland civil war?
The funny thing is people who make such strong judgements about those who perpetrate injustice are often the same who pride themselves on supposedly being more internationally minded.
Either way, indeed, we are ll just trying to make it. And that's my point. Why have such strong judgements regarding people on the other side of the world you don't even understand. Why do you people have such strong opinions about a region they know nothing about and have no understanding of. Again, I'm not saying that China is full of saints. I'm not saying there's not plenty of room for criticism. But unfounded criticism based superficial understandings does little but offend.
Last edited by bluebeard; 02-25-2010 at 01:32 PM..
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