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So, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the concept of "awakening" and "enlightment". Is it possible to look at these ideas without the lens of a diety? My thinking is "yes". Some may ascribe supernatural or "god-given" labels, but do you think profound states of consiousness are possible?
While the terms awakening and enlightenment are often ascribed to a religious experience, they can mean many things. I personally do not believe in any spirituality and these words for me do not have religious connotations.
The only profound states of consciousness appear to be either mind induced or drug induced. I have heard people say yoga brings some deep sense of inner awakening but I have never been into yoga on any deep level.
I am supremely skeptical and pragmatic so while I will not categorically state it is all hogwash, I simply believe most of it is all in the mind.
So, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the concept of "awakening" and "enlightment". Is it possible to look at these ideas without the lens of a diety? My thinking is "yes". Some may ascribe supernatural or "god-given" labels, but do you think profound states of consiousness are possible?
Or is just hogwash?
I think of "awakening" and "enlightenment" as terms relating to spirituality.
I do not consider myself a spiritual person in the conventional sense, and I really don't think of such things at all.
I think profound states of consciousness are possible for those who look for them, and no deity is required.
I have had such episodes myself when I was young and tripping on LSD.
God wasn't there, although I thought the planet was speaking to me by a sort of braille in the cracks in a dirt road being read by my feet.
I wouldn't call it hogwash. That would be disrespectful.
So, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the concept of "awakening" and "enlightment". Is it possible to look at these ideas without the lens of a diety? My thinking is "yes". Some may ascribe supernatural or "god-given" labels, but do you think profound states of consiousness are possible?
Or is just hogwash?
Even as a staunch athiest I would have to say that I can understand the concepts of enlightenment and awakening, however it is difficult to express it since the concepts are tied to a religious notion. My best friend who was a practicing buddhist for years said my own rationalization from christianity to athiesm resembled the buddhist path to enlightenment. I had never studied Buddhism in depth but as my mindset changed from selfishness and fear (western religion) to something I considered more secular humanist (eastern religions) I found it to be deeply profound that I could go against a belief I held onto as truth for so long. As concepts in Buddhism I understand awakening and enlightenment to be the realization of something you did not know before and it is so profound that it changes you completely and that change is the enlightenment, however it is a continual process, not one enlightenment and you're done. Going from a very fundamentalist christian world view to the 180 degree opposite took a lot of "enlightenment" (unlearning what I had been taught by religion) so I can see why my buddhist friend could draw paralells between the two.
I would also say that I think the desired affect can be achieved from meditation (or just any deep critical thinking of an issue) or through the use of psychadelics/entheogens. I know lots of people like to make it sound like these are fun things to do for a trip but I would not recommend taking any of those substances lightly. I think there is a certain kind of romance that comes with the thought of using psychadelics but I think people should do their research on what they would take and do it in as good a context as possible. Unless you've ever done them there is no way to explain it to anyone who hasn't but when you basically reset your brains default mode you're opening up Pandora's Box. It's more psychological than spiritual.
Certain chemicals open up the deep parts of your brain that the best way I can think to describe it (and still isn't close) is that your brain is still functioning but you experience all of what is in your brain at once but with the feeling of a living dream and a synesthesia of your mind, body, space, and time. It's dreamlike in a way that you know a person is supposed to be someone but it's not them you see, or the same with a place. but you somehow know you're experiencing them all at once but can feel them apart seperately. I think that being able to see and feel so much of yourself in a way you may not have known was possible causes what is called ego death, considered a form of enlightenment.
I'm curious to see other A/A opinions on this. I know the "drug" talk gets kind of out there and starts to sound like angels and demons and other religious fantasy. However I maintain that when people do claim to experience an awakening or enlightenment that it is more human and psychological than people may think and the spiritual jargon is just a metaphor for how ancient people's tried to explain the inner workings of a mind (their own) they couldn't percieve. It's only in the recent span of history that study of the mind has come a long and we still have a lot to learn.
So, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the concept of "awakening" and "enlightment". Is it possible to look at these ideas without the lens of a diety? My thinking is "yes". Some may ascribe supernatural or "god-given" labels, but do you think profound states of consiousness are possible?
Or is just hogwash?
Certainly not. These feelings, sensation and emotions, the product of deep meditation and methods of concentration, are well known and independently verified, just as Voices, NED's and Deja Vu.
The controvery is about whether these are all the result of what goes on in our heads or whether they represent some contact with a reality outside of the human body and experience.
I don't think we know as yet so I'm keeping options open. I know the brain can play odd tricks and I have one or two such experiences which didn't feel to me at the time that they were anywhere but in my head. There has been a little experimentation which seems to confirm that. So I'm tending to stick with what we know we have - a brain - rather than jump to any conclusions that it proves any one of a range of religions.
So, I was just wondering what everyone thinks of the concept of "awakening" and "enlightment". Is it possible to look at these ideas without the lens of a diety? My thinking is "yes". Some may ascribe supernatural or "god-given" labels, but do you think profound states of consiousness are possible?
Or is just hogwash?
Oh hell yes you can! "Elightenment" is merely rising to a greater perspective on the nature of existence and your place in it. We all do it as we learn, grow and mature and there are many ways to do it. It is not really a "magical" experience either, BTW.
Organized religion is a impediment on finding enlightenment in my opinion, because it seeks to put you on a certain level and keep you there.
True enlightenment, however never ends or tops off because there is no end to things to learn about, and no final, ultimate perspective on all that is.
Oh hell yes you can! "Elightenment" is merely rising to a greater perspective on the nature of existence and your place in it. We all do it as we learn, grow and mature and there are many ways to do it. It is not really a "magical" experience either, BTW.
Organized religion is a impediment on finding enlightenment in my opinion, because it seeks to put you on a certain level and keep you there.
True enlightenment, however never ends or tops off because there is no end to things to learn about, and no final, ultimate perspective on all that is.
Nice post, thanks, wouldn't let me rep ya for it----=--Bummer.
Thanks for the replys, CDers! I enjoyed the input.
I've recently started studying about Buddhism. I like the philosphy parts and the meditation, etc. The past lives, multiple realms, etc. stuff is a bit hokey for my taste. It seems Zen keeps the philosophy but tends to ignore the more fantastical parts.
I went for Theravada Buddhism myself since it din't drag all those Mahayana gods and demi - gods into it and it allowed me to tap into those Hindu myths without needing to become a devotee of some god or other, and it also fitted in superbly with my interest in the ancient civilisations of the ASEAN countries.
Oh hell yes you can! "Elightenment" is merely rising to a greater perspective on the nature of existence and your place in it. We all do it as we learn, grow and mature and there are many ways to do it. It is not really a "magical" experience either, BTW.
Organized religion is a impediment on finding enlightenment in my opinion, because it seeks to put you on a certain level and keep you there.
True enlightenment, however never ends or tops off because there is no end to things to learn about, and no final, ultimate perspective on all that is.
Obviously, a good part of "enlightenment" comes through intellectual maturity coupled with experience. That experience should include angst, pain, tragedy, fulfillment, joy, love lost and gained, sexual intensity and warmth. The deaths of family or friends, the realization of one's own age and growing physical limitations, and of the inability to do things you once held indispensable. Like climbing with a Basque friend in old, cold caves.....
You then sit down in the grainy snows after a day of rapelling, with a flagon of good red wine {white wine is for wimps in warm bars...} there to drink and consider and grow and discuss. You gain the bigger picture, tamped down by common sense. It's a form of open meditation. If lucky, you may also perceive the limits that allowing others to think for you ( as with religions) places on any true growth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel and The Dolphin
Thanks for the replys, CDers! I enjoyed the input.
I've recently started studying about Buddhism. I like the philosphy parts and the meditation, etc. The past lives, multiple realms, etc. stuff is a bit hokey for my taste. It seems Zen keeps the philosophy but tends to ignore the more fantastical parts.
Buddhism's intense respect for other life forms is one of it's most endearing aspects. By comparison, Christianity's rather absurd lack of that respect is one of it's most damaging aspects.
You can easily dismiss the theistic components if need be. You aren't limited to a specific form and outcome, but can instead formulate your own self-directed paradigm. It's about self-realization and seeing your focused being in relation to the world around you. No external Gods required.
Enjoy the journey. None of us ever gets all the way there, but we can certainly try.
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Clarity at high altitudes
