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Old 08-09-2010, 04:09 AM
 
Location: NY & Fl
10,505 posts, read 6,755,532 times
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IMO she wasn't an atheist to begin with.
She just hadn't ever bothered considering the issue.
Anf the took the path of least resistence rather than do the work in developing her own resources.
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Old 08-09-2010, 04:38 AM
 
Location: London, UK
14,876 posts, read 6,682,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Perhaps not, but I'm wondering how this is different than those "So and so apostate was never a Christian, anyone who was ever Christian wouldn't talk like X."

My religion aside I could certainly believe such a story because I've seen people who, when they're young, are maybe kind of self-absorbed or don't think deeply about anything. (Yes even among highly educated people. She may have just been paying attention to getting the grade than actually learning anything) So in the right environment I could see a person just not thinking much about Christians and having goofy assumptions about them. It would certainly fit other kinds of switching I've seen.

You'll see ex-Catholics say "I was forbidden to read the Bible and had to worship Mary as a Goddess." That that's nonsense doesn't mean they're necessarily lying about having been raised Catholics. (Although in some cases people who say that are lying) They maybe just didn't pay much attention as a kid or were raised by really stupid parents or when they became Evangelical they let their new faith determine their view of their old faith. So if the Christian board had some ex-Catholic saying even really outlandish things like that I would say they may be telling the truth about having been Catholic once even if one their saying is not a part of the faith. Or ex-Muslims will sometimes claim all kinds of horrors about their family even if their family turn out to be a moderate and peaceful group without any evidence of extremism in their backgrounds. I think it's called "apostate testimony" in cult studies. (Not saying Protestantism or Islam or Catholicism are cults as I'm Catholic) Sometimes it's reliable and sometimes it's not. Although it's not the same dynamic I'm not sure why a person couldn't abandon atheism and then also say misleading or inaccurate statements about it in order to either please their new community/friends or because what it meant for them was not what it meant for you.
That's a good point, but it's too easy to say 'Oh well, you are pulling the 'No true atheist' fallacy'.

But the fact is that some terminology used is not quite right for a converted atheist but more for a long time Christian apologist. I was going to mention an episode of 'The saint' I watched as a kid (I was rather a fan) in my last post but didn't. I will now.

The sex - interest gave herself away as a card carrying KGB spy by saying 'I learned the capitalist way of life'.

In fact this is a poor clue, but you get the idea. Certain ways of talking or writing give clues as to the mindset of the person writing. I gave the benefit of doubt - she never thought about it much, but the familiar terms of misrepresentation of the atheist mindset are more reminiscent of a card -carrying Theist apologist than a bright new convert from atheism.

P.s " "I was forbidden to read the Bible and had to worship Mary as a Goddess." That that's nonsense doesn't mean they're necessarily lying about having been raised Catholics."

You'll surely see that is good reason to suppose that the speaker WAS raised as a Catholic. If they said "I was ordered to burn Watchtower and denounce the King James Bible as satanic.", one might then suspect they were never a Catholic but it's a JW polemicist speaking.
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Old 08-09-2010, 08:49 AM
 
9,605 posts, read 6,535,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
That's a good point, but it's too easy to say
P.s " "I was forbidden to read the Bible and had to worship Mary as a Goddess." That that's nonsense doesn't mean they're necessarily lying about having been raised Catholics."

You'll surely see that is good reason to suppose that the speaker WAS raised as a Catholic. If they said "I was ordered to burn Watchtower and denounce the King James Bible as satanic.", one might then suspect they were never a Catholic but it's a JW polemicist speaking.
Nope. The I was forbidden to read the Bible and had to worship Mary as a goddess is a good reason to suppose the person has never actually been raised as a Roman Catholic, since this is not what is taught at all. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools and we were never taught that Mary was a goddess and we were also not forbidden to read the bible though we were to read the Catholic Bible and most of the time we didn't read it but took the interpretation of our priests and nuns instead.

The second part is certainly true. The first part if true means that the person may have been raised Catholic by parents who had no understanding of their own religion.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:04 AM
 
Location: London, UK
14,876 posts, read 6,682,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Nope. The I was forbidden to read the Bible and had to worship Mary as a goddess is a good reason to suppose the person has never actually been raised as a Roman Catholic, since this is not what is taught at all. I was raised Catholic and went to Catholic schools and we were never taught that Mary was a goddess and we were also not forbidden to read the bible though we were to read the Catholic Bible and most of the time we didn't read it but took the interpretation of our priests and nuns instead.
Yes, point taken. It is rather a misrepresentation of the emphasis on having the Bible interpreted to you rather than working it out for yourself, and Mariolatry, really particular to catholicism. I must say it was so close to worship that 'as a goddess' didn't strike me as incongruous, but I take your point.

Quote:
The second part is certainly true. The first part if true means that the person may have been raised Catholic by parents who had no understanding of their own religion.
Quite. As a not -ever catholic, the nuances might escape me and, of course, the speaker might be overdoing their indignation about it (if they had deconverted). I would just say that it is close enough that I would not immediately say 'That can never have been said by a former catholic.'
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:12 AM
 
9,605 posts, read 6,535,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Quite. As a not -ever catholic, the nuances might escape me and, of course, the speaker might be overdoing their indignation about it (if they had deconverted). I would just say that it is close enough that I would not immediately say 'That can never have been said by a former catholic.'
The problem is that the statements are exactly what Protestants who have never been Catholic *say* about Catholicism. It's NOT what Catholics believe or what is preached by the church. Just like the statements in our *former atheist's* post are really not at all like what most atheists would say, but are more like what people who are not atheists *think* atheists are like.
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Old 08-09-2010, 10:34 AM
 
8,681 posts, read 6,945,013 times
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Quote:
"I was a college professor logical, intellectual, rational and an atheist," she writes.

Though she knew next to nothing about Christianity, she began to mock Christians and belittle their faith, intelligence and character.

"[i]t was fun to consider myself superior to the unenlightened, superstitious masses, and to make snide comments about Christians," Ordway writes.
Then:

Quote:
One reason for her interest, she explains, is that her "naturalistic worldview was inadequate to explain the nature of reality in a coherent way: it could not explain the origin of the universe, nor could it explain morality."
In other words, "I'm brilliant and I can't figure it out, so a god must have done it."

Never fear, her ego is still intact.
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Old 08-09-2010, 11:11 AM
 
Location: London, UK
14,876 posts, read 6,682,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The problem is that the statements are exactly what Protestants who have never been Catholic *say* about Catholicism. It's NOT what Catholics believe or what is preached by the church. Just like the statements in our *former atheist's* post are really not at all like what most atheists would say, but are more like what people who are not atheists *think* atheists are like.
Very well. As a former catholic you are perhaps better placed than me to judge, just as I consider that, as a lifetime atheist, I can flag up some remarks by a supposed former atheist that do not quite 'ring true'.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
2,371 posts, read 1,941,286 times
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Look at the attention she is getting.

The only thing better than an athiest turning Christian is a devil worshiping rock star turning Christian.
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Old 08-09-2010, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
11,116 posts, read 8,836,522 times
Reputation: 9954
Default Former atheist now says Christianity makes sense to her. Discuss

This former christian says Christianity makes sense too, from an anthropological perspective. So does Nazism, and Communism, and Branch Davidianism, and the People's Temple, ect, ect, ect.

It all boils down to one word: Control.
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Old 08-09-2010, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
24,018 posts, read 16,649,195 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
The problem is that the statements are exactly what Protestants who have never been Catholic *say* about Catholicism. It's NOT what Catholics believe or what is preached by the church. Just like the statements in our *former atheist's* post are really not at all like what most atheists would say, but are more like what people who are not atheists *think* atheists are like.
I agree...I was raised Catholic, and she has little or no idea what either it or atheism is about...She is just parroting what fundamentalists think and say about both...She is a dishonest fraud looking for publicity to boost the sales of her book.
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