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Old 10-22-2010, 11:10 AM
 
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Wandering around the internet following some links about abiogenesis, I came across a reference to the Murchison meteorites.

Murchison meteorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently they were rich in organic compounds, and testing showed that it wasn't from earthly contamination. Now admittedly I hadn't heard of these meteorites before, not sure why, it's something that would pique my interest if I saw a news blurb about it. Anyway, I found it interesting and figured I'd share, since bits and pieces like this could eventually help to solidify abiogenesis theory. Comments and thoughts from those here more versed in this kind of science than I am?

Creationists: this isn't a discussion of creation versus abiogenesis, thanks.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar View Post
Wandering around the internet following some links about abiogenesis, I came across a reference to the Murchison meteorites.

Murchison meteorite - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Apparently they were rich in organic compounds, and testing showed that it wasn't from earthly contamination. Now admittedly I hadn't heard of these meteorites before, not sure why, it's something that would pique my interest if I saw a news blurb about it. Anyway, I found it interesting and figured I'd share, since bits and pieces like this could eventually help to solidify abiogenesis theory. Comments and thoughts from those here more versed in this kind of science than I am?

Creationists: this isn't a discussion of creation versus abiogenesis, thanks.
I had heard or read cant remember that they believed meteors were how life actually began on earth, that they brought compounds here from "space" so maybe Urban Charlotte is right and we are aliens!!
I love science, but this one is beyond my realm, maybe someone with more info can chime in.
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Old 10-22-2010, 11:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I love science, but this one is beyond my realm, maybe someone with more info can chime in.
Yeah, me too.
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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I agree with you both. It could be the meteors. Abiogenesis could also have come about near volcanic vents under the oceans. An interesting topic for sure.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
I agree with you both. It could be the meteors. Abiogenesis could also have come about near volcanic vents under the oceans. An interesting topic for sure.
Yeah, there are some freaky organisms down there for sure.
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Old 10-22-2010, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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I hear the sound of creationism fading away...

A new analysis of an ancient meteorite that fell to Earth in 1969 reveals millions of complex compounds, underscoring the richness of our galaxy’s primordial soup.

Researchers found hundreds of molecules in the carbon-rich rock, including amino acids produced in the famous Miller-Urey experiments, thought to simulate the conditions that spawned life. But those scientists were limited by their era’s relatively rough methods, and tended to look for what they expected to find.

In a study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, researchers turned the latest chemical analysis tools to a piece of the Murchison meteorite. Using techniques that measure mass down to a single electron, they found more than 14,000 different molecules.


Read More New Chemical Diversity Discovered in Old Meteorite | Wired Science | Wired.com
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:54 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
42,569 posts, read 12,129,349 times
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I hear the sound of creationism fading away...

A new analysis of an ancient meteorite that fell to Earth in 1969 reveals millions of complex compounds, underscoring the richness of our galaxy’s primordial soup.

Researchers found hundreds of molecules in the carbon-rich rock, including amino acids produced in the famous Miller-Urey experiments, thought to simulate the conditions that spawned life. But those scientists were limited by their era’s relatively rough methods, and tended to look for what they expected to find.

In a study published Monday in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, researchers turned the latest chemical analysis tools to a piece of the Murchison meteorite. Using techniques that measure mass down to a single electron, they found more than 14,000 different molecules.


Read More New Chemical Diversity Discovered in Old Meteorite | Wired Science | Wired.com
Like to know more. Given that the mothods have been improved what do the new tests show? That there are plenty of molecules but nothing to indicate that organic matter might have been brought here? Come to think of it, if organic building bocks are found in meteorites then it must be pretty widely distributed in the solar system yes? In which case it could have got started from our own terretrial material without having to wait for a meteor strike.

The undersea vents is another good suggestion. There are plenty of possibilities. Including Alien visitors and Goddunnit.
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Old 10-23-2010, 06:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Like to know more. Given that the mothods have been improved what do the new tests show? That there are plenty of molecules but nothing to indicate that organic matter might have been brought here? Come to think of it, if organic building bocks are found in meteorites then it must be pretty widely distributed in the solar system yes? In which case it could have got started from our own terretrial material without having to wait for a meteor strike.

The undersea vents is another good suggestion. There are plenty of possibilities. Including Alien visitors and Goddunnit.
Well, something that was mentioned about the meteorite compounds is that they were checked for presence of chirality, and due to the percentages that were detected, they couldn't be terran contamination.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
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The Creationists will still bring up that this is only proof that "God is everywhere!". As well, it does not solve the abiogenesis issue; only stalls it, indicating that life started elsewhere before here. That's more than possible, though would it have started as a DNA based system?

If a bio-engineer were to design, from scratch, some optimum life system which allowed for constant adaptation, they would have to design an adaptable molecule that could suffer occasional mutations or build-errors, then reliably remember the changes, and allow for tryouts in real time, real life.

The DNA/RNA system accomplishes exactly that. Actually, RNA preceded DNA, logically. So now, if we can show the chance formation of some primitive RNA system out of a fortuitous primal solution, perhaps not with three, but only, say, two, base pairs (very limiting, BTW), then we're there.

And, I do believe, those persistent Brit bio-scientists @ Cambridge have done just this. The realist world is awaiting their research publication, which will cause such dismay and a mass media furor with associated vast scrambling by the church and dedicated fundies world-wide to discredit it, which will of course prove impossible. So then the "Well, God did it anyhow!" argument will follow on. Quite predictable, actually.

Because, frankly, when that one's proven and then successfully, irrefutably re-proven, eventually there will be an "Abiogenesis" teaching module in every high school classroom, and kids will be creating reproducing RNA- and/or DNA-based life in test tubes, and then eventually one of those little experiments will sustain some chance error-driven Evolution and then, it's "Look out Momma!!".

It'll be all over 'cept for the singing. Listen: I think I can hear the angel's tunes now!
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
The Creationists will still bring up that this is only proof that "God is everywhere!". As well, it does not solve the abiogenesis issue; only stalls it, indicating that life started elsewhere before here. That's more than possible, though would it have started as a DNA based system?
I admit that while I'm miles ahead of someone like C34 in my scientific knowledge, I'm woefully ignorant about the actual nuts and bolts of some topics. I see what you're saying about abiogenesis having to start somewhere...but couldn't that somewhere have actually been during the big bang rather than at some point after it? Bang makes all these compounds, some of them catch a ride in meteors and comets, etc...end up eventually seeding the universe with the building blocks.

God I hope that doesn't sound too ignorant.
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