Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
personally I wouldn't play along with religious things for anyone or any reason but if it works for someone else, then fine..it's a personal choice...
Since I believe that love is far more important than religion I don't think I would have any problems with doing that.
I mean my parents, like their parents, already 'defied' their church by getting married in a time when it was not done that Catholics and Protestants would mix like they do now.
And having been baptized as a Protestant, but send to a Catholic school by my parents has also taught me that love (or God) doesn't care about religion at all.
Heck, it even resulted in the fact that I don't even consider myself a Christian anymore because I reject both their dogma.
But I would give up my principles for true love. I guess this is the essence of love, realising that you love someone else more than you do yourself (or your principles)?
I guess this is the essence of love, realising that you love someone else more than you do yourself (or your principles)?
I don't agree. I don't think it is good to do something for someone you love that will violate your principles in a way that will make you hate yourself or diminish you as a person.
When I realized Mormonism wasn't true, I was willing to attend church if my wife asked me to, but I was not willing to continue to be in a leadership role in my congregation, because that would require me to essentially deceive hundreds of people. Once every 3 months I'd be expected to start testimony meeting by telling people things were true that I knew were not. Quite often, I'd have to lay my hands on people's heads and "pretend" to give counsel from God to those people (priesthood blessing). I'd be expected to be an example in teaching things I knew to be untrue to people in their homes. One of my assignments was to arrange trips to a Mormon temple for the congregation in which I would "pretend" to baptize people on behalf of dead people. And, on and on. I love my wife deeply, but I will not deceive hundreds of people for her. This would not be a one-time, little white lie. People base their entire lives on the things I would be lying about and the priesthood blessings I would be pretending to give. I am not going to do that to other people, no matter how much I love the person asking me to do it. If they loved me, they would not ask me to do it. Thankfully, my wife does love me, and did not ask me to do it, studied Mormon history, and came to the same conclusions I came to about it.
Anyway, I think it is a bad idea to love someone more than "yourself (or your principles)". I would gladly lay down my life for my wife and kids. I love them more than I love my life. I willingly sacrifice my time and comfort for them. I love them more than my selfish whims. But, I do not love my wife enough to take s**t from her. I will not allow someone I love to beat me up verbally or physically. That would be one way to love them more than I love "myself (or my principles)". People sometimes find themselves in a situation in which their lovers do not have their best interest at heart. If one of my kids found themselves in that situation, I will hope that they will not love that person more than they love themselves (and their principles).
Loving someone doesn't mean giving up your principles for them. You make sacrifices and compromises, yes. But, you still have to maintain your integrity and stand up for yourself. Pick your battles wisely, and know the difference between your preferences and your principles. But, there are somethings worth fighting for, even with the person you love. Love doesn't mean becoming a doormat or a piece of clay molding to everything your partner wants or asks of you.
I don't think it is good to do something for someone you love that will violate your principles in a way that will make you hate yourself or diminish you as a person.
In this case I believe the only difference my wife and I would have is about the afterlife.
I don't believe in the afterlife so I don't think that accepting principles regarding this would affect me in any way.
And like I've already posted before; I already live a life where I can't live the way I want to, so accepting principles about the afterlife I wouldn't agree with shouldn't be that big of a deal.
But I admit that if my wife belonged to the Church of White Supremacy or was a serial predator it would have been an entirely other matter. I don't believe that I'm capable of truly loving a person like that.
Anyway, for years we've had sort of a unwritten agreement....
Are you saying this is something you both discussed freely, or is this based on assumptions?
Issues pertaining to religion need to be discussed openly, and resolved, before marriage, even if it means calling off the wedding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango
I think church leaders may be trying to push her toward divorce too, if I don't (though I may be wrong).
No, you're probably right and if it isn't the church or the people in the church, then she's looking for an excuse to get out of the marriage.
If the latter is true, that will become very apparent very quickly, because no matter what you do, you will never being doing it "right" and you'll suffer through enormous petty criticisms in order to start quarreling so she can rationalize and justify her actions.
IMO, it all depends on how much you love her. Then there's the question of which one can you live with best; your belief or her? Also, can't you just fake it until the kids are grown? That's what I'd do. By then, the wife would be older and you'll probably be ready to trade her in for a "newer model" anyways.
One of my assignments was to arrange trips to a Mormon temple for the congregation in which I would "pretend" to baptize people on behalf of dead people.
If, when you participated in baptisms for the dead, you were truly "pretending," Hueff, you're the last person who should be talking about integrity. If that's not what you meant, perhaps a clarification is in order.
If, when you participated in baptisms for the dead, you were truly "pretending," Hueff, you're the last person who should be talking about integrity. If that's not what you meant, perhaps a clarification is in order.
I think I accidentally changed my verb tense in that sentence. I quit my calling and the church within a week and a half after realizing it wasn't true. (And the one Sunday that occurred during that week and a half was part of General Conference). When I was a believer, I fully believed. When I performed temple ordinances I really thought they were genuine and for real. The moment I quit believing I no longer did anything that used priesthood I believed no one on earth had, including me.
The sentence from my post that you quoted was from a paragraph in which I was trying to spell out things I would have to do if my wife had asked me to stay as involved as I had been and keep my calling. I would have to do all those things "pretending" as if I really believed them; and I wasn't going to do that.
My integrity is quite intact. My integrity demanded of me that I thorough investigate the Book of Abraham when I first suspected it was not what Joseph claimed it was. My integrity is why I left the Church. My integrity won't allow me to knowingly deceive or mislead others.
Last edited by Hueffenhardt; 12-05-2010 at 05:01 PM..
But now the winds have changed; she wants a me to become a sterotypical mormon, give up alcohol, go to church, be baptized and all that crap. It's creating a rift between us becase I won't budge and neither will she. I think church leaders may be trying to push her toward divorce too, if I don't (though I may be wrong).
So would you go through the motions of religion to preserve your marriage or take a stand?
Simple... NO WAY would I change who I am for a marriage or anything or anyone else. Sounds as though she's become a bit of a control freak.
I think I accidentally changed my verb tense in that sentence. I quit my calling and the church within a week and a half after realizing it wasn't true. (And the one Sunday that occurred during that week and a half was part of General Conference). When I was a believer, I fully believed. When I performed temple ordinances I really thought they were genuine and for real. The moment I quit believing I no longer did anything that used priesthood I believed no one on earth had, including me.
Thanks for the clarification. Verb tense does make a difference, you know.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Since I believe that love is far more important than religion I don't think I would have any problems with doing that.
And having been baptized as a Protestant, but send to a Catholic school by my parents has also taught me that love (or God) doesn't care about religion at all. 
I guess this is the essence of love, realising that you love someone else more than you do yourself (or your principles)?
