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Old 04-25-2011, 07:04 AM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,658,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VelvetFedora View Post
I don't always get that feeling from some liberals. I've met many, and read the writings/heard the speeches of many more, whose views on pornography, sex work, and drugs are as rigid as their conservative counterparts'. The liberals I'm speaking of who hold those viewpoints never stop to consider, for example, that porn might enhance a sexual relationship, that sex work (if made legal) might protect prostitutes' legal rights and personal safety while easing the frustrations of men who can't easily obtain sex, and that the war on drugs is an expensive failure with no end in sight.

To me, true social liberalism extends beyond marriage rights (and I say that as a GLBT-identified woman) and into a vast number of other spheres which are currently not up for consideration by many current liberal political or thought leaders. Of course, I don't expect anyone to share my viewpoints on those topics, but I've encountered quite a bit of frustration when trying to discuss them with some people who profess to be open-minded.
You're confusing certitude with rigidity. I'm sure of a lot of things. That doesn't mean I'm rigid in my thinking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I don't live in California--it doesn't apply to me.

I don't care what they do "other places", only in the place where I live. Everything else--doesn't matter.
This is a very narrow and naive way of looking at the world. What happens elsewhere can and does affect you, even if it isn't immediately obvious. Take the issue of education. Most of the textbooks people use in schools throughout the country come from Texas. Right now, there's a big push to include intelligent design in biology textbooks, downplay evolution as "just a theory" and even remove references to Thomas Jefferson and replace him with John Calvin. That means Texas and the religious conservatives there are deciding what students in other states including yours will be taught. Here's another example. Many religious conservatives see hurricanes and other natural disasters as God's punishment for tolerating homosexuality. So they're using their influence to cut funding to FEMA, which means states like yours would be impacted.
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Old 04-25-2011, 08:57 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,978,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
I don't live in California--it doesn't apply to me.

I don't care what they do "other places", only in the place where I live. Everything else--doesn't matter.
But it does, as it puts wind in the sails of the millions of ignorant bigots that live where we all do, in society.

Well at least were the rest of us live, not really sure you are a member.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,413,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
But it does, as it puts wind in the sails of the millions of ignorant bigots that live where we all do, in society.

Well at least were the rest of us live, not really sure you are a member.
Before you look at what your neighbor is doing, you better look at your own backyard.
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Old 04-25-2011, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,413,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
You're confusing certitude with rigidity. I'm sure of a lot of things. That doesn't mean I'm rigid in my thinking.
Certainty equals rigidity.

I'm not certain of anything.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,413,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
You're confusing certitude with rigidity. I'm sure of a lot of things. That doesn't mean I'm rigid in my thinking.



This is a very narrow and naive way of looking at the world. What happens elsewhere can and does affect you, even if it isn't immediately obvious. Take the issue of education. Most of the textbooks people use in schools throughout the country come from Texas. Right now, there's a big push to include intelligent design in biology textbooks, downplay evolution as "just a theory" and even remove references to Thomas Jefferson and replace him with John Calvin. That means Texas and the religious conservatives there are deciding what students in other states including yours will be taught. Here's another example. Many religious conservatives see hurricanes and other natural disasters as God's punishment for tolerating homosexuality. So they're using their influence to cut funding to FEMA, which means states like yours would be impacted.
Hurricanes are just something Floridians need to learn to deal with--they do not deserve or need federal funding.
I'm not a kid in school, and I don't have kids in school. Again--no impact.
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Old 04-25-2011, 02:34 PM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,658,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Certainty equals rigidity.
Wrong. One can be certain of something based on current information. However, if new information presents itself, then that might cause them to reevaluate whatever it was they were previously certain of. This happens in science all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Hurricanes are just something Floridians need to learn to deal with--they do not deserve or need federal funding.
I'm not a kid in school, and I don't have kids in school. Again--no impact.
It has nothing do with what you deserve. It has to do with the function of government, which is to ensure the safety and well-being of the people it serves. If we follow your line of reasoning, than the government shouldn't bother protecting Florida from a terrorist attack either. And while you may not have kids, it still impacts you. Kids who are misinformed grow up to be adults who are misinformed and then create policy based on misinformation. That affects you. Oh and if those kids are misinformed, they do poorer on standardized tests. Then the school system they belong to gets a lower rating. That affects real estate value. You may not have kids, but the value of your home will be affected. I'm amazed anyone could be so naive to think they live on some island where nothing outside of it affects them.

Last edited by DennyCrane; 04-25-2011 at 02:54 PM..
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,413,522 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
Wrong. One can be certain of something based on current information. However, if new information presents itself, then that might cause them to reevaluate whatever it was they were previously certain of. This happens in science all the time.



It has nothing do with what you deserve. It has to do with the function of government, which is to ensure the safety and well-being of the people it serves. If we follow your line of reasoning, than the government shouldn't bother protecting Florida from a terrorist attack either. And while you may not have kids, it still impacts you. Kids who are misinformed grow up to be adults who are misinformed and then create policy based on misinformation. That affects you. Oh and if those kids are misinformed, they do poorer on standardized tests. Then the school system they belong to gets a lower rating. That affects real estate value. You may not have kids, but the value of your home will be affected. I'm amazed anyone could be so naive to think they live on some island where nothing outside of it affects them.

There is no certainty in life. Thus I cannot be certain of anything in it.

We don't need government or society, and I am opposed to both. (Also, I'll never ever own a home. I have no desire to own anything.)
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Old 04-25-2011, 04:57 PM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,919,494 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
There is no certainty in life. Thus I cannot be certain of anything in it.

We don't need government or society, and I am opposed to both. (Also, I'll never ever own a home. I have no desire to own anything.)
In a perfect world, we might not need government, but I don't think we live in a perfect world.

You don't own a home. Since you have no desire to own anything, I take it you do not own the computer you are using? What happens if you are not allowed to use it anymore? Just curious. If it is a library computer, I assume you have a library card. The library is kept up by the government you despise.
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Old 04-25-2011, 06:22 PM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,658,203 times
Reputation: 7538
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
There is no certainty in life. Thus I cannot be certain of anything in it.

We don't need government or society, and I am opposed to both. (Also, I'll never ever own a home. I have no desire to own anything.)
I guess every forum has to have a troll who says things just to start an argument.
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Old 04-25-2011, 10:16 PM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,919,494 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
I guess every forum has to have a troll who says things just to start an argument.
I don't know if he is a troll, but he's amusing. I find his arguments a bit nonsensical, but I would love to know if he is really a hermit who doesn't have a home and doesn't want anything to do with people in real life.
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