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I wasn't sure whether to post this in the Politics forum, the Employment forum, or this one since it relates to all three. But since it's primarily about the need to appeal to a higher power, what drives that need, and why people believe in the things they do, I thought this was the best place for it.
Someone in another thread commented about how a lot of atheists are also liberals. The inverse of that is often true, that the deeply spiritual tend to be more conservative. But there are also different types of conservatives. Social conservatives believe that man's law should be dictated by the Bible. Ban gay marriage, outlaw abortion, promote abstinence, etc. Economic conservatives say that those at the top are the ones who create jobs and we should therefore defer to them. We should lower their taxes, stop imposing regulations on them, and have faith in the free market. Lastly, you have conservatives who like the idea of a strong executive branch, one whose authority shouldn't be questioned cause to do so would be unpatriotic , and one who should be free to wage preemptive war on America's enemies. When it does things we don't quite understand the rationale for, we should accept that the people in power know more than us and should therefore be trusted to make the right decisions.
So what do all of these have in common? The need to appeal to a higher authority. Social conservatives think God decides what's right and wrong and that men can't be trusted to figure that out on their own. Economic conservatives think "the invisible hand of the free market" should be trusted, that the wealthy of this country are the ones the rest of us ought to be grateful to for providing us with jobs. As for the third type of conservative, I guess it really depends on who's in power. When it was Bush, we were constantly told "trust us cause we have access to intelligence that you don't." We were also told that it was un-American to question our President.
Do you see current running through all of this? Us ordinary men should defer to someone else, presumably someone who has the answers we don't. Defer to God when it comes to deciding what's right and wrong. Defer to corporations and the free market when it comes to deciding what's best for our economic well-being. And defer to our President when we're left wondering why we're invading some country.
Now I'm not interested in discussing the flaws in supply-side economics or the roll of government. My question runs much deeper than that. Why do you think some people need to appeal to a higher authority? Where does this need come from? It seems to me there's a certain personality that's prone to thinking this way and perhaps that explains why some of us are liberal atheists and others are Christian conservatives. Suppose that the belief in the almighty is driven by fear, in this case fear of the unknown. It's scary for some people to think we're all alone out here, that there isn't someone looking out for us. And maybe this spills over into how they view the economy or government. Uncertainty is difficult for many people to cope with so it makes sense that they might want to look to someone or something else for answers. But as we've seen throughout history, there are no shortage of people willing to take advantage of those fears.
Could part of it be a trust issue?
I don't trust anybody to make important decisions for me. (Family excepted)
And I am really not comfortable with someone having authority over me in the first place.
Maybe some people can't trust themselves to make important decisions so they are more comfortable with someone else making them.
A belief in, acceptance of or desire for some "higher power" is a universal attribute of mankind. From the most primative societies to the most advanced, people have been seeking answers outside themselves since the first human being was created or crawled up out of the primordial soup. It seems to be our nature to do so.
Scripture indicates that's a gift from God, a sort of God-sized hole in every human heart which leads men to Him. You may disagree and I'd like to hear some other explanation, if anyone has one.
A belief in, acceptance of or desire for some "higher power" is a universal attribute of mankind. From the most primative societies to the most advanced, people have been seeking answers outside themselves since the first human being was created or crawled up out of the primordial soup. It seems to be our nature to do so.
Scripture indicates that's a gift from God, a sort of God-sized hole in every human heart which leads men to Him. You may disagree and I'd like to hear some other explanation, if anyone has one.
There's a field that seeks to explain the unknown. It's called science. But there are plenty of things in life I don't yet have the answer to. And I'm actually quite content not knowing. I don't fill in the gaps by saying whatever science hasn't figured out must be attributable to God. I also don't think I should have to offer an alternative explanation for how the universe came into being. The burden of proof is on the people who say God created it. And you can't invoke scripture since you have no evidence that what's written there is the word of God. Lastly, I find it incredibly arrogant to assume that all men have a belief in, acceptance, or desire for some higher power. This may shock you, but there are plenty of us who don't. Explain that.
It's simple enough... it's just a complicated version of Dominant vs Submissive ape. We need to be in a group, and in our groups few will rule, many will follow. Those followers will naturally look for someone/something to follow.
It's simple enough... it's just a complicated version of Dominant vs Submissive ape. We need to be in a group, and in our groups few will rule, many will follow. Those followers will naturally look for someone/something to follow.
People generally follow out of choice. If I chose to follow a leader, it's because I think he'll do a better job than me. But I also have the option to not follow and go on my path. Why do people willingly follow someone else? Usually it's because you trust that person will do a better job than you, that they're more capable of leading and solving the problems you can't. On a sinking ship, you might not know how to save yourself. So you'll look to someone more knowledgeable and more experienced.
But the need to belong to a group is an interesting one. Jess Ventura once made a controversial statement. He said that organized religion is a crutch for people who need to find strength in numbers. Of course, he was condemned for saying such a thing. No one wants to hear that they belong to a religion out of fear, even if it's true for many people.
There's a field that seeks to explain the unknown. It's called science. But there are plenty of things in life I don't yet have the answer to. And I'm actually quite content not knowing. I don't fill in the gaps by saying whatever science hasn't figured out must be attributable to God. I also don't think I should have to offer an alternative explanation for how the universe came into being. The burden of proof is on the people who say God created it. And you can't invoke scripture since you have no evidence that what's written there is the word of God. Lastly, I find it incredibly arrogant to assume that all men have a belief in, acceptance, or desire for some higher power. This may shock you, but there are plenty of us who don't. Explain that.
I only mentioned the scriptures as an explanation. I left the door wide open for any others and, in fact, would like to hear them. It's not a challenge for you to meet by explaning how we all got here. In fact, that would be going off-topic because this thread is about why people seek answers from some kind of "higher power."
Nor, did I say all "men" have a belief in, etc. I said all "mankind." Certainly, there are individual exceptions, but people groups and cultures have worshipped SOMETHING since the very beginning, be that the sun, Mother Earth, flying spaghetti monsters, WWII aircraft or the God of the Bible.
There is SOMETHING within all people which seeks explanations for things they cannot understand or do not know. Apparently, in your case and for many others, that explanation is sought within the realm of modern-day science. I say modern-day because, at one time, relgion was considered as science.
The point is that we all want to know what we don't know. We just use different means to determine it, but the impulse is there. And, we have "gods" to explain that which our resources can't explain.
People generally follow out of choice. If I chose to follow a leader, it's because I think he'll do a better job than me. But I also have the option to not follow and go on my path. Why do people willingly follow someone else? Usually it's because you trust that person will do a better job than you, that they're more capable of leading and solving the problems you can't. On a sinking ship, you might not know how to save yourself. So you'll look to someone more knowledgeable and more experienced.
But the need to belong to a group is an interesting one. Jess Ventura once made a controversial statement. He said that organized religion is a crutch for people who need to find strength in numbers. Of course, he was condemned for saying such a thing. No one wants to hear that they belong to a religion out of fear, even if it's true for many people.
On the other hand, John Donne said this:
"No man is an island, entire of itself...any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind..."
Who's right? Donne or Ventura? Or, are they both right? Or, both wrong?
I think they are both right. Donne's statement doesn't necessarily relate to religion. Ventura's statement is overly simplistic, but it is certainly true for some people.
Based on the argument of the OP, one could say liberal atheists seek out the government as a higher authority. With that said, the argument is interesting and worth discussing.
I'm an atheist with libertarian leanings and am weary of the government's involvement in the economy and in our personal lives. But my political and economic views have nothing to do with spiritualism.
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, and one who should be free to wage preemptive war on America's enemies. When it does things we don't quite understand the rationale for, we should accept that the people in power know more than us and should therefore be trusted to make the right decisions.
