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Old 04-27-2011, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firstborn888 View Post
That's a personal conviction though. 20,000 + denominations all have variants and all are perceived to be solid and unchangeable by those who adhere to them.
Yours is a personal conviction too. Why is mine wrong and yours right?
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Yours is a personal conviction too. Why is mine wrong and yours right?
Exactly!
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Yours is a personal conviction too. Why is mine wrong and yours right?
No, his is not necessarily a "conviction". What is a conviction? It is an unshakable belief/faith that a particular concept is in fact "the truth."

An athiest may have a "belief" that there is no God but it certainly isn't a "conviction". Why? Because the "belief" that there is no god does not require "faith".

Faith is required for a "conviction" because faith requires one to "believe" something and as a mental exercise, not allow competing/conflicting beliefs to be in consideration.

Thus, we have the concept of "enough" or levels of faith. One who holds a belief and who ponders other competing thoughts is considered to have "little faith" whereas others who do NOT ponder these competing ideas are considered to have "deep faith."

Firstborn888 may believe something but feel free to consider the alternative view(s) and therefore is not bound to having a "conviction."

And to bring this around, if you have "little faith" then you wouldn't want to get around any demon possessed people because the demon might leave that person and take up residence in YOU. However, if you have "deep faith" you can run the demon off somewhere. In fact, you can do like Jesus did in the bible and run the demons into a herd of pigs. I don't think pigs have "enough faith" to ward off demons.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,383,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
No, his is not necessarily a "conviction". What is a conviction? It is an unshakable belief/faith that a particular concept is in fact "the truth."

An athiest may have a "belief" that there is no God but it certainly isn't a "conviction". Why? Because the "belief" that there is no god does not require "faith".

Faith is required for a "conviction" because faith requires one to "believe" something and as a mental exercise, not allow competing/conflicting beliefs to be in consideration.

Thus, we have the concept of "enough" or levels of faith. One who holds a belief and who ponders other competing thoughts is considered to have "little faith" whereas others who do NOT ponder these competing ideas are considered to have "deep faith."

Firstborn888 may believe something but feel free to consider the alternative view(s) and therefore is not bound to having a "conviction."

And to bring this around, if you have "little faith" then you wouldn't want to get around any demon possessed people because the demon might leave that person and take up residence in YOU. However, if you have "deep faith" you can run the demon off somewhere. In fact, you can do like Jesus did in the bible and run the demons into a herd of pigs. I don't think pigs have "enough faith" to ward off demons.
Plenty of them are certain of it, with no proof of nonexistence. It is merely their faith that tells them there is no God--they have no proof. That's where I'm agnostic. I have no proof that God does or does not exist, thus I'm completely neutral in terms of belief. Neither positive or negative, just flat zero.
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Plenty of them are certain of it, with no proof of nonexistence. It is merely their faith that tells them there is no God--they have no proof. That's where I'm agnostic. I have no proof that God does or does not exist, thus I'm completely neutral in terms of belief. Neither positive or negative, just flat zero.
Here is the definition of "faith" according to webster:

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.

2. The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth

By definition an athiest cannot have "faith" in a non-entity.
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Old 04-28-2011, 06:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Here is the definition of "faith" according to webster:

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.

2. The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth

By definition an athiest cannot have "faith" in a non-entity.


That may be Webster's definition, but it's not the definition from the Bible.

Faith in the New Testament, is translated from the Greek "pistis," which means to be convinced of the truth of something. It comes from the word "pietho," which is defined as being convinced by the evidence. The word translated as belief or believe, comes from the same two words.

True, New Testament faith is not blind. It is evidence based.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:00 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,729,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
That may be Webster's definition, but it's not the definition from the Bible.

Faith in the New Testament, is translated from the Greek "pistis," which means to be convinced of the truth of something. It comes from the word "pietho," which is defined as being convinced by the evidence. The word translated as belief or believe, comes from the same two words.

True, New Testament faith is not blind. It is evidence based.
Faith is not evidence based. It is a belief in something despite there being no evidence.

You like to twist words and hedge your bets but you are wrong. But what can we expect really. You are blind to any truth and you hang onto your faith like a child clings to its blankie, forever infantile. But then again, bible believers are infants to some extent, refusing to grow up and take responsibility, always believing their god will save them, boost them up, take care of their worries etc etc.

I understand, I was once like you. But eventually I was freed from the shackles of religion and the scales fell from my eyes and my mind was liberated.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:02 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,662,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
Faith is not evidence based. It is a belief in something despite there being no evidence.

You may define it that way, and even act upon that definition, but I don't.

Just because you think faith has no basis, doesn't mean I have to think the same thing.
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Old 04-29-2011, 01:09 AM
 
Location: Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
Just because you think faith has no basis, doesn't mean I have to think the same thing.
Exactly!
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Old 04-29-2011, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,383,899 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddie gein View Post
Here is the definition of "faith" according to webster:

1. Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth of what is declared by another, resting solely and implicitly on his authority and veracity; reliance on testimony.

2. The assent of the mind to the statement or proposition of another, on the ground of the manifest truth of what he utters; firm and earnest belief, on probable evidence of any kind, especially in regard to important moral truth

By definition an athiest cannot have "faith" in a non-entity.
I did not say they did. I said that many here had faith that there was NO God.
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