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Old 05-12-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,310 posts, read 3,877,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
What are we speaking out against exactly? Religion fills a need for many people and gives them a purpose. That's a POSITIVE in my book. Personally I don't believe in it, I don't have the need for it, and I think the day they shut their eyes and never wake up - the end.

I don't think I have a right to ruin someone else's crutch. Let them get a purpose from it, let them think they will be reunited with their loved ones forever in eternity, let them have that joy and peace.

Why would any Atheist believe they have a right to ruin that?
I completly share your attitude. Religions means a lot to a lot of people and has fullfilled their needs in life.

The OP brought up a good point. I do see a lot atheist budge in with their comments about delusions, fantasies, etc. very often when there is not a speck of need to do so yet just yesterday commented to me that a theist for making a comment was basically snobing them because it was in a theist forum. The writer said something like "I think" the theist was doing that. MMMM? Think?

I, like you, am not a Bible or Jesus follower but I do believe as I scan on the R&P forums that theist seem to be the first ones to throw the first stone. I have to make an effort to look closely a survey if my perception is right though, take care.
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Old 05-12-2011, 03:08 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,062 times
Reputation: 1573
Originally Posted by Djuna
Quote:
I find it interesting that the very concept of god/gods come to us through ancient texts and oral history that are pretty clear on the nature of god, yet people continue to just make up their own concepts.

Fascinating example of how wishful thinking still dominates humans despite the contrary evidence.
Waittaminute; me stating that humanity is the biggest monster there is, is proof of wishful thinking?
But I guess that is what you get when you discuss abstract constructs like gods or religion.
Either you believe that the ancients can only be right or that you should disregard your own personal experience whenever they contradict these ancient texts.

FYI I only agree with ancient texts when they do not contradict my own experience.
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Old 05-13-2011, 07:41 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,332,182 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
So if ya ask me if I believe in a supernatural force I have no problem admitting that I don't believe in supernatural forces.
Ah-ha!! But I didn't ask you that my brother. You said you didn't know whether or not you were atheist. I asked you whether or not you believed in the existence of gods....and you still ain't answered the question.
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Old 05-14-2011, 05:24 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Rafius
Quote:
Ah-ha!! But I didn't ask you that my brother. You said you didn't know whether or not you were atheist. I asked you whether or not you believed in the existence of gods....and you still ain't answered the question.
No I have answered your question, but let me explain it in other words; I put love 1st.
To me love=God.
Unlike other theists (and probably atheists also) I donít find love a supernatural force.
Yet there is no doubt in my mind that love can accomplish miracles.
And to me the greatest miracle love can perform is transcending the ego.

I often compare God to art (with a capital a), everyone knows what Art is but not everyone agrees that every work of art actually is Art.
I mean I rather call Frank Miller's graphic novel The Dark Knight Returns a work of Art instead of Da Vinci's Mona Lisa, yet I'm sure that many people would disagree with me.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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Tricky D: Since in your estimation love=God, and love is not a supernatural force (I agree), does that mean that God is not a supernatural force either? Why not forget about the God concept, then, and advocate love, which might bring us all together?
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Old 05-14-2011, 02:12 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,062 times
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote:
Tricky D: Since in your estimation love=God, and love is not a supernatural force (I agree), does that mean that God is not a supernatural force either?
I guess so.
I don't believe in supernatural forces anywayz.
But like Sherlock Holmes I do not dismiss it either.
If I can't explain it rationally then it must be supernatural.

Quote:
Why not forget about the God concept, then, and advocate love, which might bring us all together?
But I do advocate love; the problem with love (much like the concept of god) is that not everyone shares my definition of love.

To me the God concept is just a tool to convey my message.
Besides, I don't think that I treat love any different than a Christian would Christ or a Hindu one of the many gods of the Hindu pantheon.

Last edited by Tricky D; 05-14-2011 at 02:22 PM.. Reason: clarification
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:26 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,967,933 times
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Well...okay...
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Old 05-15-2011, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,143 posts, read 5,105,779 times
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Religion(most prominantly organized religion) isn't really something that many adherents just peacefully leave others alone. Case in point, the anti gay and anti science movements mostly come from religiously motivated ideologies. This almost exclusively relates to american christians, but there is an insesent need to go out and 'convert the heathens' and spread the beliefs that nonbelievers are unhappy hedonists who can only live a purposeless and meaningless life of despair and are going to burn for eternity. There is also the fact of child indoctrination. Also, while not necessarily the majority, you have whackaloons running around physically and emotionally harming their children because they think god is telling them to. While not all religious people are intrusive nutballs, there are many that let their religious beliefs negatively influence their actions and decisions.
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Old 05-15-2011, 03:29 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,062 times
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Originally Posted by agnostic soldier
Quote:
Religion(most prominantly organized religion) isn't really something that many adherents just peacefully leave others alone. Case in point, the anti gay and anti science movements mostly come from religiously motivated ideologies.
I agree and I don't view religion any different from any other group.
Unfortunately groups at their very essence are intolerant; otherwise there would be no need to belong to a group.
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Old 05-16-2011, 04:16 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,108,712 times
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Tricky - I think you're focusing too much on a play of words.

"Love" is a term for an emotion. It's a chemical reaction, and if you consider monogamy to be a calling card for love, well - it's not just humans who experience "love." Certain animals bond pair and only mate with each other for life, they raise their young together and share similar behaviors that humans "in love" do with their newborns. The evidence for love being brought about by a hormone can be found in the link below, for those interested.

So love is an emotion, a chemical reaction. Where you're adding confusion into the mix is by entwining this hormonal response with "God." It's an unnecessary step, and doesn't make sense since you have to then start defining "God" in your own terms, outside of the widely accepted roles he already plays.

Personally, I get the impression you're someone who wants to be believe in God. The idea is appealing to you, and rightfully so - even us Atheists will admit it's a beautiful idea, and the thought that something unknown, bigger than us is out there is very appealing. But that alone doesn't allow us to shut off the logical part of our brain, stop asking honest questions, and embrace all the unknowns, questions that can't be answered, with "faith" and a simple "God did it, so that's the end of questioning it."

Love Is a Chemical Reaction, Scientists Find | Online NewsHour | February 13, 2009 | PBS
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