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Old 05-16-2011, 05:54 PM
PDD
 
Location: The Sand Hills of NC
8,774 posts, read 14,888,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
Why do Atheists debate theists?

Frankly, I don't see the point. Even if I was 100% successful in debates - who cares? In the scheme of things, what I believe, what the Theist believes means absolutely nothing. I'm fully aware of this, so I question...why would an Atheist waste time debating?

Aren't there more fun things in a life than endless discussion about beliefs? Isn't there a better way to keep our minds sharp, than constantly rationalizing through endless arguments with Theists? There are so many marvelous books out there, wonderful things to learn outside of this topic - why waste your 77 years (give or take) on this?

The point of Atheism I believe is to NOT waste our time with religious nonsense. Life is precious, life is delicate, life is wonderful - enjoy it while you're here. I believe it takes an Atheist to truly see it, and as such I never understand those who chose to be drawn into the religious nonsense, and spend their limited time with it.

So why debate?
For the same reason people debate politics, people love to argue.
Debating religion or non religion has nothing to do with religious beliefs. It has everything to do about arguing. Some people just like to argue the opposing view no matter what the subject.
Trying to change religious views is like trying to get a Yankee fan to switch and become a Met fan. Ain't gonna happen.
I like to read the posts here because they are amusing on both sides.
I have my non beliefs and I see no point in debating that because nobody could ever change my mind.
Every single day I read Billy Grahams column in the newspaper and I am astonished at what he says but I still read and just shake my head and laugh.
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Old 05-16-2011, 11:28 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Quote:
Tricky - I think you're focusing too much on a play of words.
Love is not just a word it is an action. And trying to define love is as complicated as trying to define God.
For instance a rapist claiming that he raped his victim because he loved her doesn't understand the concept of love at all. The fact that he's a rapist only proves that he loves himself and certainly not the victim.
So just calling something love does not make it so.

Quote:
"Love" is a term for an emotion. It's a chemical reaction, and if you consider monogamy to be a calling card for love, well - it's not just humans who experience "love."
Are you implying that humanity is the only type of animal to experience emotions?
And I wasn’t talking about monogamy, but about love.
Monogamy doesn't necessarily have anything to do with love; one could even be in a monogamous relationship without having to love anyone.

Besidez, calling love a chemical reaction doesn't explain anything, life is a series of chemical reactions.
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Old 05-17-2011, 12:04 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Quote:
Personally, I get the impression you're someone who wants to be believe in God. The idea is appealing to you, and rightfully so - even us Atheists will admit it's a beautiful idea, and the thought that something unknown, bigger than us is out there is very appealing. But that alone doesn't allow us to shut off the logical part of our brain, stop asking honest questions, and embrace all the unknowns, questions that can't be answered, with "faith" and a simple "God did it, so that's the end of questioning it."
The thing is that I'm not interested in who created reality, or how the laws of physics exactly work.
I consider myself more an artist (or a poet or philosopher) than a scientist simply because it was art that taught me to think in the abstract.
And like most artists I value my own experience over (book) knowledge.
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Old 05-17-2011, 02:52 PM
 
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Tricky - I think debating with you is such that when the person is talking about A, you're talking about B. I think you gloss over answers and rebuttals and carry on, which is fine, just...kind of a waste of time for the other person involved.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Quote:
Tricky - I think debating with you is such that when the person is talking about A, you're talking about B.
LoL, only if you're unwilling to contemplate my definitions.
I mean I still think that you confuse religion in general with monotheism.

The difference between you and me is that I'm more interested in my "opponent's" philosophy than in debating him.
Which explains why I generally have no problem debating religion with either theists or atheists.
I’m not trying to convince them to come over to my side.
Nor am I trying to 'win' a debate.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:39 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,112,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe LoL, only if you're unwilling to contemplate my definitions.
I mean I still think that you confuse religion in general with monotheism.

The difference between you and me is that I'm more interested in my "opponent's" philosophy than in debating him.
Which explains why I generally have no problem debating religion with either theists or atheists.
I’m not trying to convince them to come over to my side.
Nor am I trying to 'win' a debate.
I'm not either, but I don't like arguing on a slippery slope.

As I said before, "Love" is a term for an emotion. It is a hormonal response, a chemical reaction. There is nothing supernatural about it; and this is where we differ. You call up "God" to define "Love" (again - love is an emotion, a hormonal response) - which is an unnecessary step because you rob "God" of his long established role and create your own purpose for him - which makes no sense.

To summarize -

1. Love is an emotion.
2. God is a supernatural entity.
3. To explain "Love" you call up a supernatural entity, redefine him, and create your own purpose for him.
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Old 05-17-2011, 04:41 PM
 
8,680 posts, read 13,314,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Most atheists do not care what Theists believe. If they want to believe their god impregnated an under age girl in order to give birth to himself and that waving a cracker around is symbolic of that event then let them. No skin off our nose.

The problem is it does not stop there. Many of these people will not be happy until we believe it too. As such they enter our halls of power, education and science in order to impose their baseless beliefs on the rest of us and as with all politics we are called upon to show their ideas are unsubstantiated, baseless and even harmful. If personal faith remained personal faith there would be little to no debate to be had on this topic.
That sums up my sentiments exactly. I don't care what theists think. But when they try to turn their religion into the law of the land, I'm going to speak up.
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Old 05-17-2011, 06:54 PM
 
1,635 posts, read 1,630,086 times
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Default Einstein's Response......

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
Why do Atheists debate theists?

Frankly, I don't see the point. Even if I was 100% successful in debates - who cares? In the scheme of things, what I believe, what the Theist believes means absolutely nothing. I'm fully aware of this, so I question...why would an Atheist waste time debating?

Aren't there more fun things in a life than endless discussion about beliefs? Isn't there a better way to keep our minds sharp, than constantly rationalizing through endless arguments with Theists? There are so many marvelous books out there, wonderful things to learn outside of this topic - why waste your 77 years (give or take) on this?

The point of Atheism I believe is to NOT waste our time with religious nonsense. Life is precious, life is delicate, life is wonderful - enjoy it while you're here. I believe it takes an Atheist to truly see it, and as such I never understand those who chose to be drawn into the religious nonsense, and spend their limited time with it.

So why debate?
Einstein said, “There are people who say there is no God. But what makes me really angry is that they quote me for support of such views.” The famous atheists of his day such as George Bernard Shaw, Bertrand Russell, and Sigmund Freud had a keen taste for denigrating those who believed in God. Einstein, on the other hand, was not shy about expressing his feelings about non-believers. “What separates me from most so-called atheists is a feeling of utter humility toward the unattainable secrets of the harmony of the cosmos,” he explained.
“The fanatical atheists,” he once wrote in a letter, “are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against traditional religion as the ‘opium of the masses’—cannot hear the music of the spheres.”
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Old 05-17-2011, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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So Einstein was a spiritual Deist of sorts. I have no problem with that, and I'm an atheist. I don't see how what he stated can be seen as support for organized religion.
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Old 05-18-2011, 12:16 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,812,220 times
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Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe
Quote:
I'm not either, but I don't like arguing on a slippery slope.

As I said before, "Love" is a term for an emotion. It is a hormonal response, a chemical reaction. There is nothing supernatural about it; and this is where we differ. You call up "God" to define "Love" (again - love is an emotion, a hormonal response) - which is an unnecessary step because you rob "God" of his long established role and create your own purpose for him - which makes no sense.
Slippery slope?
Where have I stated that love is a supernatural force?
I'm sure that I have even clearly stated here in this thread that I do not believe in supernatural forces, since I've never encountered a supernatural force.
Nor do I consider love a supernatural force.
I have even clearly stated that I substitute God with love.

Unlike atheists I believe that gods are created simply because people worship them so I've chosen to worship love; I put love 1st.
LoL, the only difference I see between a religion and a philosophy is that all religions are a philosophy but not every philosophy is a religion.
Heck I even call atheism a religion since most atheists worship logic ( or ego as I call it, because atheists generally act as if their logic is infallible) the same way I worship love or a theist their deity.
But like most polytheistic religions I have no desire to steer others onto my path because I know that because something works for me does it mean that it will work for them too.

In short: religion has to do with worshipping something and whether this something is supernatural is irrelevant.
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