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Old 05-07-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,681,154 times
Reputation: 7721

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
I have a hard time believing that converters are as concerned for me as they are concerned for their numbers - just like how a salesman is concerned primarily with the bottom line.
You may assume that's the case, and it even may be in some instances, but not among those I know and associate with.
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Old 05-07-2011, 05:23 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,988,108 times
Reputation: 6688
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Doesn't it also say that people have different gifts? Maybe "sales" isn't someone's thing.
Yes this is how I feel more or less. I'm willing to be a teacher, when asked tell what we believe and answer questions, but I'm not equipped or capable of being a preacher. I think the New Testament allows for both teachers and preachers.
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Old 05-07-2011, 05:33 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,988,108 times
Reputation: 6688
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
I think the two differ. I ASSume Christians disrespect Atheist,I know they do, while I may admit they are ignorant of their lack of respect, I find that disrespectful.
But isn't that kind of a defensive posture that may lead to a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy?

I'm sure there are at least a few atheists here who feel I'm disrespectful, but mostly I don't think I am unless provoked. Sure I think atheism is incorrect or unappealing as an idea, but it doesn't mean I disrespect atheists in general or their overall outlook.

Many atheists value the same kinds of things I'd value. Knowledge, friendship, compassion, helping others, and so forth. Even things like "virtue ethics" have atheist followers. Isaac Asimov is like my favorite author and there are several atheist philanthropists or social workers I find admirable.

I would like to think if I were atheist I could at least look at religions as a whole and try to judge their positives and negatives even if it was just in some kind of pragmatic or utilitarian way. Rather than simply rejecting them totally and out of hand. And the atheists I read in youth did that. Asimov clearly felt religion was untrue and kind of silly, but much of his work seems to have a pragmatic "If they're not hurting anyone or bothering me I don't much care" attitude. The current crop seem less likely to do that and that's disappointing to me.
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Old 05-07-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,418,726 times
Reputation: 10958
Quote:
Originally Posted by cleatis View Post
I do actually get tired of salesman. Because they all have a 'good deal'. And to a good salesman, you're really little more than an account or a consumer. And as far as concern, I have a hard time believing that converters are as concerned for me as they are concerned for their numbers - just like how a salesman is concerned primarily with the bottom line.
Actually, a "good" salesman knows what you are looking for and puts you together with what you're looking for. He doesn't sell you something just because it's the most expensive thing he can sell you.
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:48 PM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,971,690 times
Reputation: 1476
So, selling God is just like selling me a product?
Well, there ya go, that is always open for debate now isn't it. If someone tells me I need a T.V. and I don't watch T.V. then I will be debating that salesman until he leaves me alone. For every "don't you wish you had this great T.V." I will have a "no, I don't because I don't watch T.V." as a reply until the salesman gives up and moves on to someone else who didn't ask for a T.V.
Do I respect the salesman''s delusion that everybody watches and needs T.V.'s?
No, no I don't. Why should I? A God salesman and a T.V. salesman are the same to me. God doesn't make it any different, he only makes it feel different to the salesman.
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:37 PM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,971,690 times
Reputation: 1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
[/color]


When have I done those things?



When have I done those things?



Boy, you've got a really bad, and really false, idea about Christian's, don't you?



We should know.



Uh...no. I wouldn't think that was mean and egotistic. Then again, I don't think everything is about me.

[color=darkgreen]

You'd probably be ridiculed and made fun of, but that wouldn't make it right.

As for me personally, I'd not only partially agree with you, but rise to your defense as well.

Would you defend me?
You do know I'm sure that I was talking about the "majority" of Christians and not you personally? If you don't think that applies to the majority of Christians then we have an issue to discuss, if you are telling me that you aren't a Christian that believes in spreading the word, or publicly thanking God for luck, or telling me you'll pray for me or we should pray for something then you do have my respect, just like anyone who is a citizen of this world.

My view of Christians is only because the majority of them make it publicly obvious what they feel I need or assume everyone would want to hear their statements about God. How could I view the ones who's mouths were shut? I couldn't, I wouldn't know or care who they were.

It wouldn't offend you, you're in the market, but it does offend me, I'm not in the market nor would you respect anyone thanking Santa claus for an oscar or for saving their home from a fire. Sorry, I see that as the same thing. Christians just haven't grown out of a belief to me, where as children do grow out of the belief in Santa and the Bunny
.
I would ask you to put yourself into others shoes and think. What would you do if instead of God it was the Easter Bunny? Would you get sick of that belief? If others came to your door, or stated it on every channel you watched? Would you not get tired of it? Feel like they were rude for assuming the Easter Bunny belief was free of disrespect just because more people than not in your country believed in him?

I'll give you that, really, most people are on the God train so you get privileges I don't but please, don't tell me how to think about them will ya. That is just a little bit much. And please refrain from telling me you would defend me, like you're a better person. You're debating me on cd for Gods sake, literally.
For one, I wouldn't get up and do that, it would be rude of me to assume agreement from the country on my personal beliefs.

What would you need defending for? No one would bat an eye if you thanked God, everyone and their mother already does without ever thinking what the people who don't believe in God think about it. They don't care because they are in the majority in this country.
Now if you were being attacked on the street yes, of course I would help you out despite your beliefs.
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Old 05-07-2011, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,418,726 times
Reputation: 10958
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
So, selling God is just like selling me a product?
Well, there ya go, that is always open for debate now isn't it. If someone tells me I need a T.V. and I don't watch T.V. then I will be debating that salesman until he leaves me alone. For every "don't you wish you had this great T.V." I will have a "no, I don't because I don't watch T.V." as a reply until the salesman gives up and moves on to someone else who didn't ask for a T.V.
Do I respect the salesman''s delusion that everybody watches and needs T.V.'s?
No, no I don't. Why should I? A God salesman and a T.V. salesman are the same to me. God doesn't make it any different, he only makes it feel different to the salesman.
That's why I don't believe in this "Great Commission" thing...even for Christians. I don't like it when Mormons do it, I don't like it when Jehovah's Witnesses do it, I don't like it when atheists do it.

If I'm NOT in the market for it, don't try to sell me something I don't want to buy. If I am in the market, don't try to sell me the most expensive thing you have or the thing that gives you the most "profit". Sell me the best thing for me to buy at the amount I'm willing to spend.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Boise
2,008 posts, read 2,981,106 times
Reputation: 731
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
Actually, a "good" salesman knows what you are looking for and puts you together with what you're looking for. He doesn't sell you something just because it's the most expensive thing he can sell you.
This is fair enough, but you're still little more than another consumer.
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Old 05-08-2011, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,236 posts, read 41,418,726 times
Reputation: 10958
You may be another consumer, but it is of no benefit to me if you buy or not.

Same with most of these people.

I don't sell on commission. I refuse to.
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:21 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,681,154 times
Reputation: 7721
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
You do know I'm sure that I was talking about the "majority" of Christians and not you personally? If you don't think that applies to the majority of Christians then we have an issue to discuss, if you are telling me that you aren't a Christian that believes in spreading the word, or publicly thanking God for luck, or telling me you'll pray for me or we should pray for something then you do have my respect, just like anyone who is a citizen of this world.

My view of Christians is only because the majority of them make it publicly obvious what they feel I need or assume everyone would want to hear their statements about God. How could I view the ones who's mouths were shut? I couldn't, I wouldn't know or care who they were.

It wouldn't offend you, you're in the market, but it does offend me, I'm not in the market nor would you respect anyone thanking Santa claus for an oscar or for saving their home from a fire. Sorry, I see that as the same thing. Christians just haven't grown out of a belief to me, where as children do grow out of the belief in Santa and the Bunny
.
I would ask you to put yourself into others shoes and think. What would you do if instead of God it was the Easter Bunny? Would you get sick of that belief? If others came to your door, or stated it on every channel you watched? Would you not get tired of it? Feel like they were rude for assuming the Easter Bunny belief was free of disrespect just because more people than not in your country believed in him?

I'll give you that, really, most people are on the God train so you get privileges I don't but please, don't tell me how to think about them will ya. That is just a little bit much. And please refrain from telling me you would defend me, like you're a better person. You're debating me on cd for Gods sake, literally.
For one, I wouldn't get up and do that, it would be rude of me to assume agreement from the country on my personal beliefs.

What would you need defending for? No one would bat an eye if you thanked God, everyone and their mother already does without ever thinking what the people who don't believe in God think about it. They don't care because they are in the majority in this country.
Now if you were being attacked on the street yes, of course I would help you out despite your beliefs.

Wow! You're sure easily offended. Are you sure you're not LOOKING for offense?

You know, when the Seventh Day Adventist's or Mormon's or the nice folks from the Presbyterian church come to my door (which they occassionally do) I just politely decline their offer to talk and gently close the door. Thank you, but no thank you. No offense meant, and no offense taken.

See how easy that is? No yelling, no screaming, no smark remarks, no "Get off my porch you religious wacko's!" No hurling of insults, no throwing of stones. No offense taken. Why should I be offended? They're just doing what they think they should be doing and so am I. Guess what? They don't sit out in the driveway and honk their horn or camp out in the front yard or follow me around with bullhorns. They just leave and we wave at each other as they go.

Maybe you should try being polite too. They're really NOT out to get you!
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