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Old 05-13-2011, 08:30 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,313 posts, read 3,881,269 times
Reputation: 2572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
See following:



I have no problem with ignorance. What I do have a problem with is self-imposed ignorance.
Thanks for the reply and I also wrote people that push laws that impose certain moral behaviors is wrong. Please read more closely and you will find that.

The bottom line is that the OP simply stated he does not like it when people simply express himself with words that reflect religious inclinations. I responded to that and others started to bring up laws into play. If that is the case some in the forum do seem to not be straight on the point and instead simply come up with demeaning comments about delusions and fantasies. So what if people believe that way. If the issue is about imposing laws then say that, not go around the bush, take care.
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Old 05-13-2011, 08:32 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,968,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
I'm not a psychologist but it seems to me if you really want to change somebody's mind or educate them, laughter and derision will be counterproductive. It just makes people feel defensive and angry and unwilling to listen to reason. If you could try to gently tell that guy his leprechauns were imaginary, and you got through to him, wouldn't you think you'd done him a service, rather than just saying rude things that may amuse yourself, or make you feel superior, but don't accomplish anything.
Ah, the beauty of my mind is that I don't feel the need to convince. My only MISSION would be to thwart theirs. I think you've misunderstood what it's like to be on the other end of the stick. I don't care if they believe in Leprechauns, I just care if they want me to respect their belief in Leprechauns and do something like PRINT that belief on a dollar bill lets say or better yet believe in them as well because their is NO PROOF that they don't exist.

I don't care if they feel defensive and angry, plus, they start out unwilling to listen and their is nothing I can do about that. Christians have the ultimate excuse, and with that they feel superior. I guess I would as well if the Leprechauns promised me eternal life and forgiveness for anything I said or did that offended others. It's a nice ride, one that has got many jailed. It all starts somewhere, forgive me if I can't distinguish the difference between a mom killing her children because God commanded it and Noah's Ark. They both seem delusional to me and in need of a good pill.

If someone says "God loves you" the first thing I think is "oh no, crap" and I am quickly looking for an exit. The second is "really, you've spoke to him?" and in my mind I'm thinking "I hope they are taking their meds".
You see, I have the same reaction they would have if someone on the street said to them, "Zoros, the great god of sidewalks loves you". Honestly, what would they think? I truly believe that most God fearing individuals would do as I do and quickly look for an exit and hope they had their meds. Then laugh with their friends about it later. It's that simple really. I don't have a "group" delusion going, I'm just living for now and don't care if the whole world does it or not. I don't need to get through to anyone, just away from them. I just don't want to be on their "God to do" list. lol
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
5,677 posts, read 6,777,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
I'm not a psychologist but it seems to me if you really want to change somebody's mind or educate them, laughter and derision will be counterproductive. It just makes people feel defensive and angry and unwilling to listen to reason. If you could try to gently tell that guy his leprechauns were imaginary, and you got through to him, wouldn't you think you'd done him a service, rather than just saying rude things that may amuse yourself, or make you feel superior, but don't accomplish anything.
That would be operating under the assumption that I *wanted* to change his mind. In many cases, I'm not interested in doing so...at least, not as an immediate result. Many people are so firmly entrenched in their delusional thought patterns that it is likely that no amount of 'gentle' persuasion is going to unseat him from them, it would be a waste of my time. There would be all manner of excuses as to why *I* can't see the leprechauns, such as not believing they exist in the first place which renders them hidden from me, etc. etc.

However, if he spends enough time talking about leprechauns, and enough people laugh at him, then maybe, just maybe, he will begin to re-examine his belief and the evidence for it...or the lack thereof. His coming to the conclusion that leprechauns are imaginary creatures that don't *really* exist, on his own, would be far better than someone trying to convince him of that fact against his will.

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

While the original author of this quote is not known for certain, it still has a certain amount of truth in it.
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Old 05-13-2011, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Toronto, ON
2,333 posts, read 2,508,683 times
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But delusions have their bottom line just like that private health schemes are helpful to the supplementary support of associated payment of the employer. We have delusions also that the garbage is in the long run profitable to take to recycling along with the land fill dump.
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Old 05-13-2011, 10:09 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,968,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tgnostic View Post
But delusions have their bottom line just like that private health schemes are helpful to the supplementary support of associated payment of the employer. We have delusions also that the garbage is in the long run profitable to take to recycling along with the land fill dump.
LOL, we do indeed don't we.
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Old 05-13-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: zone 5
7,330 posts, read 13,243,787 times
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I think a lot of agnostic/atheist people on this forum are actually making some of the same assumptions about others that they feel Christians do. For one thing, assuming that someone who believes in respecting Christians is Christian themselves. Again, I'm not Christian or any other religion, don't believe in an old-man-in-the-sky God. I don't want people trying to force religious or non-religious beliefs on others. When someone mentions belief or non-belief in God in passing, without proselytizing, I let it go. I guess I just think there's too much rudeness and anger in the world and I'm not going to add to it unecessarily.
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Old 05-13-2011, 06:59 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,313 posts, read 3,881,269 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
I think a lot of agnostic/atheist people on this forum are actually making some of the same assumptions about others that they feel Christians do. For one thing, assuming that someone who believes in respecting Christians is Christian themselves. Again, I'm not Christian or any other religion, don't believe in an old-man-in-the-sky God. I don't want people trying to force religious or non-religious beliefs on others. When someone mentions belief or non-belief in God in passing, without proselytizing, I let it go. I guess I just think there's too much rudeness and anger in the world and I'm not going to add to it unecessarily.
Great post! Both sides are guilty calling the other some some demeaning stuff. One side says condemns the other and the other likes to keep claiming reason and logic and all that stuff when in reality many of them are not really straightforward, take care.
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:02 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,968,039 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
I think a lot of agnostic/atheist people on this forum are actually making some of the same assumptions about others that they feel Christians do. For one thing, assuming that someone who believes in respecting Christians is Christian themselves. Again, I'm not Christian or any other religion, don't believe in an old-man-in-the-sky God. I don't want people trying to force religious or non-religious beliefs on others. When someone mentions belief or non-belief in God in passing, without proselytizing, I let it go. I guess I just think there's too much rudeness and anger in the world and I'm not going to add to it unecessarily.
Then let me ask you subject2change. Why are you on this thread?

"I don't understand why people (religious and not so religious folks) insist on respecting the point of views of others.....regardless of how rediculous and stupid their claims are!

Does anyone else get frustrated by this fact?

If you don't want your ideas to be questioned and rediculed (in the case of religion and a god), then either 'smart up' and don't come up with fairytales as your truths and your reality, or keep it to yourself, and don't go around saying "the good lord this....and the good lord that..."

Ticks me off i tell ya! "


I'm on here in response to the thread, if you don't want to ADD TO ANYTHING RUDE OR ANGRY why on earth are you posting? Why didn't you just do like you've stated and "let it go"?

Last edited by twiggy; 05-14-2011 at 01:30 AM..
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Old 05-14-2011, 01:04 AM
 
3,884 posts, read 8,968,039 times
Reputation: 1476
Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
Great post! Both sides are guilty calling the other some some demeaning stuff. One side says condemns the other and the other likes to keep claiming reason and logic and all that stuff when in reality many of them are not really straightforward, take care.
You too! See above.
This thread started out this way, shouldn't you have avoided it? I'm on here because I agree and then some.

Last edited by twiggy; 05-14-2011 at 01:31 AM..
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:01 AM
 
Location: zone 5
7,330 posts, read 13,243,787 times
Reputation: 9611
Quote:
Originally Posted by twiggy View Post
Then let me ask you subject2change. Why are you on this thread?

"I don't understand why people (religious and not so religious folks) insist on respecting the point of views of others.....regardless of how rediculous and stupid their claims are!

Does anyone else get frustrated by this fact?

If you don't want your ideas to be questioned and rediculed (in the case of religion and a god), then either 'smart up' and don't come up with fairytales as your truths and your reality, or keep it to yourself, and don't go around saying "the good lord this....and the good lord that..."

Ticks me off i tell ya! "

I'm on here in response to the thread, if you don't want to ADD TO ANYTHING RUDE OR ANGRY why on earth are you posting? Why didn't you just do like you've stated and "let it go"?
You are right. I got caught up when trying to explain the concept of simple good manners,having nothing to do with religion, to the OP due to a post on the retirement forum. I'd only looked at this forum maybe once before during my time on city-data, found it wasn't for me, and I don't think it is now either. Anyway I should have let it go.
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