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Old 06-29-2011, 05:03 PM
 
865 posts, read 1,457,707 times
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I had two separate conversations with different Christians. Both are just the typical casual believers. One, a family member, was adamant about why don't people just let other people believe what they want and how can anyone criticize anyone's beliefs anyhow since nobody really knows.

My first major objection was that religion hasn't left anyone alone in the past and doesn't leave anyone alone now. They constantly infringe on other people's beliefs and use their beliefs to try to dictate society. How can a Christian of all people say to leave other people alone and respect everyone's beliefs? If Christians say to let them believe what they want that would only make sense if their religion didn't come into play in our society.
My next objection was that we criticize other people's beliefs all the time. When mothers kill their infants and say that God told them to do it, we don't accept that. Funny since the God of the Bible told someone in the past to do the same thing. Maybe this time, though, they didn't change their mind. If I had a sincere belief in personal Santa Claus who I could communicate to through prayer, I'm sure I would be criticized. What if I still believed in the Roman Gods, after all I am Italian. Would believers in modern religions accept my belief? If, before doing something, I said that my personal God, who lives on my shoulder, told me to do it, would it be accepted or criticized?

Anyway, by the end of the conversation, both of them accepted my belief in Santa Claus as rational. They had to since their God made much less sense than my Santa Claus God.

I believe anything can be criticized, especially if it is not based on scientific evidence. It is ludicrous to believe in things that have no evidence or to make up some imaginery evidence to fit your beliefs.
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Old 06-29-2011, 11:23 PM
 
3,413 posts, read 6,482,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subject2change View Post
Let's say you told someone about something very sad that had just happened to you that had you very worried. Trying to be kind, this person said they would pray for you. Would you ridicule them, or accept that they were trying to say a nice thing to you without realizing how you felt about it? Should people be mocked when their intentions are good?

And, like I said before, it would have been equally rude to insult him for mentioning he was an atheist. It had nothing to do with the question you asked that he was responding to.
No, they should not be mocked. They only reason to do that would be to make yourself feel superior.
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Old 06-30-2011, 02:17 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
31,104 posts, read 32,009,049 times
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The only time I ever mention that I'm not a believer is when someone proselytizes to me, either face to face or by e-mail, but I'm never rude unless they ignore me and persist, which rarely happens.
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Old 06-30-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
5,886 posts, read 4,224,141 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
The only time I ever mention that I'm not a believer is when someone proselytizes to me, either face to face or by e-mail, but I'm never rude unless they ignore me and persist, which rarely happens.
I don't bring up my views until the topic of religion is brought up. Sometimes I refrain from speaking though because all I really want to do scream. I have heard some of the silliest, illogical, most nonsensical things and I know that I if I say anything to refute them it will be vicious and at work I don't find it appropriate.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:01 AM
 
1,019 posts, read 485,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBeavs View Post
And they talk about who's "saved" and "not saved" like they're discussing their 401(k) or something.

Delusion is so deeply rooted in our culture, I marvel at how difficult it will be to kill it.
Much of their deluskion is merely annoying and self-serving drivel - like the "ssaved" BS. As far as I am concrerned, they are free to delude themselves all they want.

My issue, and where I feel action is required, is when they attempt to impose their fiction on society by having it taugh in school as "fact". Creationism, comes to mind.

Creation Science is not science, it is dogman, and has no place being taught as science - even as an alternate "option" for explaining life on earth. It is simply a fable of no truth or connection with reality.
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Old 06-30-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: in here, out there
3,064 posts, read 5,671,225 times
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People who say that they respect all people's beliefs are lying.
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Old 06-30-2011, 01:40 PM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,316 posts, read 3,907,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles22 View Post
People who say that they respect all people's beliefs are lying.
I tend to believe what you just said. Many people say those words very often but by their actions are saying otherwise. Respect does not only mean that you are not trying to interfere in other peoples beliefs. There is basic respect that would be good we could give to others.
Example:
The OP was disrespectful towards people that believe in God by the way he worded his message by putting people down. He talked in a demanding way how people that believe in God need to wise up. Why? Because in his view they are illogical. Well, they may be but to put them down in such manner shows lack of simple respect by showing courtesy.
To me he may not say he does not respect his views but with his demeanor is disrespectful. That is how he came across with me.
Often people say they have the right to express how they feel as in the OP's case. The point is not the right to express his views and feelings. He has the right to be a jerk if he wants to when he express his views. The point is showing respect which in this case he as not doing so. Take care.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:42 PM
 
Location: around the 44th parallel
110 posts, read 86,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elamigo View Post
I tend to believe what you just said. Many people say those words very often but by their actions are saying otherwise. Respect does not only mean that you are not trying to interfere in other peoples beliefs. There is basic respect that would be good we could give to others.
Example:
The OP was disrespectful towards people that believe in God by the way he worded his message by putting people down. He talked in a demanding way how people that believe in God need to wise up. Why? Because in his view they are illogical. Well, they may be but to put them down in such manner shows lack of simple respect by showing courtesy.
To me he may not say he does not respect his views but with his demeanor is disrespectful. That is how he came across with me.
Often people say they have the right to express how they feel as in the OP's case. The point is not the right to express his views and feelings. He has the right to be a jerk if he wants to when he express his views. The point is showing respect which in this case he as not doing so. Take care.
The OP was merely being truthful.

We wouldn't insist on "respecting" ones right to insist that a house is haunted. We would laugh at it, and most would not disapprove of the laughter.

Yet with religion, we're told the entire world is haunted, and damaging legislation and government-sponsored murder ensues as a direct result. Yet we're supposed to "respect" that?

IMO, the OP wasn't strong enough in his condemnation of these backward delusions.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
3,316 posts, read 3,907,291 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptBeavs View Post
The OP was merely being truthful.
I do not know why you wrote this. Did I questioned truthfullness? No. Please explain why you addressed this.

We wouldn't insist on "respecting" ones right to insist that a house is haunted. We would laugh at it, and most would not disapprove of the laughter.
So you may laugh becuase a someone truly believes a house is haunted, OK. If I saw someone truly felt that way I would respect that view and feeling and not demean or insult the person however illogical it may be to me. We differ here because it seems to me that it is OK to be a jerk with others when they believe things that do not make sense to you. I would respect that person. However, if someone tells me a house is haunted and insists that I believe that I would either tell him I do not agree but if he insists without respecting my view then all bets are off.

Yet with religion, we're told the entire world is haunted, and damaging legislation and government-sponsored murder ensues as a direct result. Yet we're supposed to "respect" that?
There is a difference on how to deal with this. If someone shares his religious beliefs with me just as I share other types of views with him, I see not need to demean even if he believes the whole world is haunted. However, the legislation point you bring up I agree with you in this sense. I fight back with those that are pushing their agenda. Now, those in forums like this that often just try to share their beliefs I often do not see reason why so many act respectfully. If they have it against others that are pushy and lash it out on those in the forums that simply are expressing their views to me is uncalled for. In the case the OP opens up pretty much lumping all in the same group. I do not agree all religous people are that way and to put a message labeling all in the same way is not accurate. To me it shows lack of the logic he claims to have and expects others to have.

IMO, the OP wasn't strong enough in his condemnation of these backward delusions.
I do not share that view because he did not address the point regarding legislation or moral pushing on others. He just addressed about how he thinks people may be dilusional or illogical in demeaning terms. I am not against strong disagreement or condemnation. I can condemn and views of others without being a jerk or demean people. Maybe you and him can't, I can. Take care.
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Old 07-01-2011, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,619,407 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
How about just simple common courtesy?
Atheists are interested in what they call "simple common courtesy" only when it serves them.

Quote:
How about valuing other people just because they are human beings like you?
Atheists, again, are not interested. They are better than human. Ubermensches, if you like.

Quote:
None of us have to be disagreeable to disagree. That's a choice.
It's a very good choice. It allows for the future of mankind on this planet.
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