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Old 05-04-2011, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,214,711 times
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Well, simply enough we can't ultimately tell who's delusion is the "right" delusion. We can make a consensus, but that doesn't automatically make it right. After all, it was once the consensus among Europeans that black people were inferior and therefore suitable for use as slaves.

It is impossible for the human mind to experience anything truly and honestly 100% objectively, being that we are always stuck within our own brains...
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:02 PM
 
3,682 posts, read 4,942,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Well, simply enough we can't ultimately tell who's delusion is the "right" delusion. We can make a consensus, but that doesn't automatically make it right. After all, it was once the consensus among Europeans that black people were inferior and therefore suitable for use as slaves.

It is impossible for the human mind to experience anything truly and honestly 100% objectively, being that we are always stuck within our own brains...
and they were wrong how?
sorry, i'm of course kidding. of course it was wrong of them to think that way.

but you see, you only have the evidence in your hand to go by. i don't blame the people 3000 years ago for thinking that the earth is flat.....but if someone claims that 'now', you'd call them crazy or misinformed at best! why? because there is evidence! there's solid proof!

It's true that some 'beliefs' that we hold today may turn out to be false in the distant or near future....but some will not! such as......gravity! or the fact that the earth is round (well, sphericalto be more percise )
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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Originally Posted by Thinking-man View Post
and they were wrong how?
sorry, i'm of course kidding. of course it was wrong of them to think that way.
Why do you say that?
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Old 05-04-2011, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post

That's how it's done.
Or the reply to the first could be: "Okay, if you say so..."

It's your thing, do what you wanna do.
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Old 05-04-2011, 04:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
The way I see it, if all we do is disrespect and insult those who have beliefs that are, admittedly, open to ridicule, we will never get a fair hearing for our own ways of thinking. It probably isn't going to happen anyway, but disrespect and insult insures it.
Well, if people are going to assert their belief in something that is just as silly and ridiculous as the easter bunny, tooth fairy, werewolf or witches, then there should be no surprise if they get called out on it, in any fashion.

I do feel that everyone should exercise some semblence of respect and courtesy, but if some one gets laughed at because they express their belief in goblins and fairies, then there should be no surprise if someone is laughed at when they preach religion. Both are equally puerile as well as just plain silly.
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:36 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
Well, the religious bunch think their beliefs, as well as churches, are sacrosanct. I've also asked this same question, and have come to the conclusion that most delusionals think the vast majority of people believe like they do.
I doubt a vast majority of Catholics think as I do. I doubt a vast majority of Catholics in my parish think as I do. I'm not even sure a vast majority of Catholics in my family think as I do.

Still I suppose I do think there are some core notions (The supernatural exists, people should help each other, there are places or things that should be treated with reverence, you should never have sex with your biological mother) I share with the vast majority of people even if they wouldn't put them in exactly those words. In the case of "the supernatural, it" is pretty open as a term and could include everything from Karma or nature spirits to God or Brahma. "Places or things treated with reverence" can be secular as I imagine few, regardless of creed or lack thereof, would think it's okay to have a pillow fight at Auschwitz or use a copy of the Declaration of Independence as toilet paper. And the other two I don't think relate to religion at all, although I have heard of atheists who feel incest taboos are irrational and unjustified if either person is sterile or post-menopausal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axemanjoe View Post
Well, if people are going to assert their belief in something that is just as silly and ridiculous as the easter bunny, tooth fairy, werewolf or witches, then there should be no surprise if they get called out on it, in any fashion.
And how do you determine whether certain things are as silly as those?

And anyway there were women, and men too, who used potions to cause others harm or bilk them out of money. They were in a sense "the real witches" and if they'd been the only ones punished for witchcraft it might have made sense. And it's not unheard of for people to develop delusions of being an animal with canines being a favorite of animal delusions. Possibly in the age of ergot poisoning such delusions were more frequent. So far as I know the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy have less experiential backing then even Scientology notions so putting them in a discussion of religion is just a show of contempt rather than a real response to anything.
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Old 05-04-2011, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
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Axeman, YOUR beliefs are sancrosanct--and should never be treated with mockery or disrespect.

It's not too hard to not mock others. Remember Thumper? "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing." I find myself saying nothing a lot.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:38 PM
 
705 posts, read 944,398 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I doubt a vast majority of Catholics think as I do. I doubt a vast majority of Catholics in my parish think as I do. I'm not even sure a vast majority of Catholics in my family think as I do.

Still I suppose I do think there are some core notions (The supernatural exists, people should help each other, there are places or things that should be treated with reverence, you should never have sex with your biological mother) I share with the vast majority of people even if they wouldn't put them in exactly those words. In the case of "the supernatural, it" is pretty open as a term and could include everything from Karma or nature spirits to God or Brahma. "Places or things treated with reverence" can be secular as I imagine few, regardless of creed or lack thereof, would think it's okay to have a pillow fight at Auschwitz or use a copy of the Declaration of Independence as toilet paper. And the other two I don't think relate to religion at all, although I have heard of atheists who feel incest taboos are irrational and unjustified if either person is sterile or post-menopausal.



And how do you determine whether certain things are as silly as those?

And anyway there were women, and men too, who used potions to cause others harm or bilk them out of money. They were in a sense "the real witches" and if they'd been the only ones punished for witchcraft it might have made sense. And it's not unheard of for people to develop delusions of being an animal with canines being a favorite of animal delusions. Possibly in the age of ergot poisoning such delusions were more frequent. So far as I know the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy have less experiential backing then even Scientology notions so putting them in a discussion of religion is just a show of contempt rather than a real response to anything.
I don't determine what is silly, it will present itself. The potion users you alluded to are not witches, they are criminals who have committed aggravated assault/attempted murder by duping someone into ingesting a poison. No thing mystical about that.
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Old 05-04-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,913,084 times
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Originally Posted by stillkit View Post

What we shouldn't do, though, is attack the person who holds those beliefs. We don't have to agree with them, but we do have to accept them as they are. In other words, respect them and their right to hold a different opinion.
This is me. I don't go after the individual. Never have. I even agree that they have the RIGHT to hold whatever belief that floats their boat. Now, respecting the various beliefs is another story. If it is worthy of mocking I feel individuals should have that right also. If it worthy to be called nonsense and foolishness and cab be proven as such, folks should be able to have the RIGHT to do so also.
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Old 05-04-2011, 08:03 PM
 
Location: Texas
14,078 posts, read 17,681,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
This is me. I don't go after the individual. Never have. I even agree that they have the RIGHT to hold whatever belief that floats their boat. Now, respecting the various beliefs is another story. If it is worthy of mocking I feel individuals should have that right also. If it worthy to be called nonsense and foolishness and cab be proven as such, folks should be able to have the RIGHT to do so also.
So you think you should have the right to mock anothers beliefs? I wonder how that shoe would fit on your foot?

But, you go right on and do that. I think I'll pass.
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