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In my case respect has more to do with how people treat each other. I do not show of feel disrespect because I believe they are ignorant or want to believe in things I do not think have any logic. I also have no contempt for them either. I look between the lines and I venture to guess that the polite strategy you claim does not shield your true contempt and that can reflect and be seen or sense by others. Look at your "puerile" and "delusional" comment. I can sense your disdain for them simply because they believe the way they do. I base my respect towards others by the way they treat other people, not by what they believe. We differ on our approach when it comes to respect others, take care.
Much of my contempt and disdain comes from the coruption that results from them trying to influence others, everything from the use of public funds for religious based activities and items to legislating bans on sunday liquor sales.
Much of my contempt and disdain comes from the coruption that results from them trying to influence others, everything from the use of public funds for religious based activities and items to legislating bans on sunday liquor sales.
I have no problem if you do not agree with that. I agree with you. Then you have not been clear on what you are saying.
You and many here focus on delisions and fantasies as you write all over. Now, what is the real contempt, becuase they seem to be trying to impose how you live? If that is the case, them tell me that, not about delusions and fantasies.
I do not care how delusional you may be. Now, impose something on me and I do not care if you are a theist or atheist, there will be a reaction from me. Your beleifs are no concern to me, take care.
I have no problem if you do not agree with that. I agree with you. Then you have not been clear on what you are saying.
You and many here focus on delisions and fantasies as you write all over. Now, what is the real contempt, becuase they seem to be trying to impose how you live? If that is the case, them tell me that, not about delusions and fantasies.
I do not care how delusional you may be. Now, impose something on me and I do not care if you are a theist or atheist, there will be a reaction from me. Your beleifs are no concern to me, take care.
I often DO tell tham that. But, at the same time if someone is going to stand there and rant about what is obviously a delusion or fantasy, as you call it, then they should not be surprised if they get called out on it.
Again, the OP was asking why there is this expectation of respect on the part of the delusional types. Respect might not be the best word in the context that the OP is using. I am leaning towards acceptance. Most of the religious delusionals I know have this feeling that they are automatically due a fairly high amount of reverence and posture like they are above so many others. A lot of them feel as if their stature is based on how strongly they believe in their chosen religion and they wear it very distinctly on their sleeves. That's just another fallacy of religion and shows just how truly blind, as well as brain-washed, they are.
I have no problem if you do not agree with that. I agree with you. Then you have not been clear on what you are saying.
You and many here focus on delisions and fantasies as you write all over. Now, what is the real contempt, becuase they seem to be trying to impose how you live? If that is the case, them tell me that, not about delusions and fantasies.
I do not care how delusional you may be. Now, impose something on me and I do not care if you are a theist or atheist, there will be a reaction from me. Your beleifs are no concern to me, take care.
Groups like society and government are constantly trying to impose unnecessary restrictions on ALL individuals.Moderator cut: delete
Last edited by Miss Blue; 05-10-2011 at 04:04 PM..
Reason: trolling
What is missing? Everything you accept as knowledge about Reality IS knowledge about God.
Says you, but given that you have no evidence, argument, data, or reasons to suggest there even IS a god entity.... what you said literally means nothing.
Unless.... as I said before..... your definition of god is simply "What I call anything we do not understand" in which case all you are saying is that "Everything you accept as knowledge about Reality IS knowledge about Reality" which is not saying much more than nothing anyway.
However I note that no matter how many times I ask you, on how many threads I ask you, you do not define exactly what you mean by god.... yet you keep telling us it exists. This is about as useful as me telling you "Spluddunksplitz" exists and then refusing to tell you what that word actually means to me. You can not prove "Spluddunksplitz" does or does not exists... because you simply have no idea what it even is... so where can you start?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
but it is NOT the same thing as keeping God out of the explanatory framework for Reality.
Then simply define what "god" is in your opinion and adumbrate for us exactly what you think it explains and how. You can then move to to your evidence, argument, data or reasons for thinking it exists as merely having explanatory power is not enough. If I find a dead body then the idea magical elves killed the person might explain it.... but that does not mean that is actually what happened or that those elves exist.
Really it is simple:
Step 1: Explain exactly what you mean when you say "god" as thus far it appears all it means to you is "a label for anything we do not understand".
Step 2: Explain exactly what you think the concept of god explains and how it explains it and why.
Step 3: Explain exactly what your evidence, argument, data and reasons are for thinking the entity defined in step 1 exists
So if I say God loves you, are you going to get bent our of shape?
No, but the person in question does instantly pay a price in my eye in both credibility and respect. If such a person is happy to pay that price then I have no problem with them.
I think with posts like the OP however we are not talking about a GENERAL respect, but talking about the people who demand such respect for their opinions. When they walk into our halls of power and education and science and demand some god based policy.... and we point out that given there is no evidence there IS a god their policy is baseless... and they then say its their religion and we should respect it.... what they are not asking for is respect, but a free ride. By "respect" they are more often than not demanding acceptance of their ideas, not respect for them.
The disrespect, to use your term, is not or should not be directed at the person. That would just be rude.
The disrespect is or should be limited to the ideas that the person is advocating:
ideas that aren't based in the known or the provable but rather ideas or whole set of often circuitous ideas
which their advocates still want to be respected for as if they were objectively known and proven.
That schism is the problem.
There IS a difference.
An inherent difficulty is for religious people like myself our "ideas" aren't simply intellectual hypotheses to discuss over Cognac. (Although to be honest I think many of you would not treat the Nostratic hypothesis or Freudianism as derisively as religion even if those ideas are downright discredited to a great degree)
At heart many of them refer to what we feel is our purpose and what we love. There might be a hypothesis one could make about your mother and the road-crew for Metallica, but it would be unsurprising if you didn't take that as an impersonal hypothesis. Even if it was presented in a bloodless and calm manner. And for religious people religion is also not just an impersonal bloodless hypothesis about how widgets work or how to best balance the family budget.
Groups like society and government are constantly trying to impose unnecessary restrictions on ALL individuals.Moderator cut: delete
I am aware that happens very often. What does that have to do if someone believes in Santa, God, the Easter Bunny?
The reasons I ask this is because I am getting the perception that many in this forum and others are not really straight forward.
I see them insulting, demeaning, or being condescending to those the believe in God. If the real motive to do so if because they have seen many Bible/God believers push for laws that impose our rights, SAY SO!!
No, they go around the bush attacking religions beliefs and the people. Many of the people in the forum are nice honest people and sincerely believe in respect to others, etc. The same I will say about atheist that get insulted by theists.
So why not stop going around the bush and say "I do not like it when people try impose laws that interfere with my right"? I agree with that statement but I do not make it by default on blaming religious people. There are other people that do the same for other than religious reasons also.
From there I see no problem to discuss in a forum by asking why those religious people do so and let them know your contempt to that. But no, let's attack people's beliefs, take care.
I just think it is going about the the wrong way, take care.
I am aware that happens very often. What does that have to do if someone believes in Santa, God, the Easter Bunny?
The reasons I ask this is because I am getting the perception that many in this forum and others are not really straight forward.
I see them insulting, demeaning, or being condescending to those the believe in God. If the real motive to do so if because they have seen many Bible/God believers push for laws that impose our rights, SAY SO!!
No, they go around the bush attacking religions beliefs and the people. Many of the people in the forum are nice honest people and sincerely believe in respect to others, etc. The same I will say about atheist that get insulted by theists.
So why not stop going around the bush and say "I do not like it when people try impose laws that interfere with my right"? I agree with that statement but I do not make it by default on blaming religious people. There are other people that do the same for other than religious reasons also.
From there I see no problem to discuss in a forum by asking why those religious people do so and let them know your contempt to that. But no, let's attack people's beliefs, take care.
I just think it is going about the the wrong way, take care.
Well, after all, this is an atheism forum, if people are going to put up posts that delcare their beliefs to be religious based doesn't that seem like poking that metaphorical rattlesnake.
I don't understand why people (religious and not so religious folks) insist on respecting the point of views of others.....regardless of how rediculous and stupid their claims are!
Does anyone else get frustrated by this fact?
If you don't want your ideas to be questioned and rediculed (in the case of religion and a god), then either 'smart up' and don't come up with fairytales as your truths and your reality, or keep it to yourself, and don't go around saying "the good lord this....and the good lord that..."
Ticks me off i tell ya!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
No, but the person in question does instantly pay a price in my eye in both credibility and respect. If such a person is happy to pay that price then I have no problem with them.
I think with posts like the OP however we are not talking about a GENERAL respect, but talking about the people who demand such respect for their opinions. When they walk into our halls of power and education and science and demand some god based policy.... and we point out that given there is no evidence there IS a god their policy is baseless... and they then say its their religion and we should respect it.... what they are not asking for is respect, but a free ride. By "respect" they are more often than not demanding acceptance of their ideas, not respect for them.
And that I certainly will NOT respect. ever.
Now it seems the real motive surfaces again. It seems you are having a hard time with an individual. OK, I got it and I understand if you do not feel respect for that person.
On the second paragraph to me it is matter of not reading too much into something. You wrote "I think", mmmm, think?
It seems now you are putting to much in his words. MAYBE you are right but when I replied to the OP I replied on what is there in black and white, no more no less. I did not "think" what he meant.
Did he address , politics, laws? No. I addressed his point on what he wrote.
His message was offensive to them, in my opinion. He say people insist on respect. If I call you stupid because I think some view you have is stupid, would you not feel offended? I would expect you ask me to respect you.
The OP write an example: "the good lord this....and the good lord that..." what is wrong if my neighborgh or my son-in-law or my daughter or you say that in conversation? Nothing as far as I am concerned. When I start to have a problem is if any of those cited above try to impose their views on my in some shape or form or demand I listen to their views when I do not want, bottom line.
Also, notice he wrote: then either 'smart up' and don't come up with fairytales as your truths and your reality, or keep it to yourself
Again, did he address politics, laws, etc. as you addressed that bothers you? No.
So the OP does not reflect anything you claim. Maybe you can read minds, I do not so I stay within what he wrote, take care.
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