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Old 06-02-2011, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,996,789 times
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Atheists are not necessarily without emotion or feel unconnected to others. It seems that you are drawing a positive correlation between agnosticism/atheism and disconnection from other people/nihilism. People who "already feel disconnected" are at least as likely to become religious, IMO.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:53 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote:
Atheists are not necessarily without emotion or feel unconnected to others.
And I never claimed they were.
In every post regarding atheism & nihilism I've clearly stated that my concern was more with people who aren't rooted in the love of their friends and / or family and thus feel disconnected.

Quote:
People who "already feel disconnected" are at least as likely to become religious, IMO.
True, but the difference between the 2 is that religion generally isn't as lonely a journey as nihilism and to degree atheism.
Only a crisis of faith sets a theist on the path of wandering through the desert (which I call nihilism).
So even when the theist doesn't feel connected to friends & family his religion (his surrogate family) will reach out to him. Provided that they've noticed that he started to isolate himself (because of his crisis of faith).

Some come out stronger because of their wandering through the desert and some never come out at all.
I consider this wandering through the desert as hitting puberty where you discard some of your parent religion's beliefs and accept some (or all) based on your own personal experiences.
And some even drop all their religion's beliefs and become atheists.

An individual who doesn't feel connected to others (regardless of friends & family) and reads up on nihilism will have no one to fall back on.
Which imo means that either they'll never leave the desert (become nihilists) or haven’t survived the journey.
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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I agree with much of your post, but when I had my 'crisis of faith' in 1968, I didn't have any thought of turning to nihilism. I simply stopped believing in gods. It didn't affect my sense of ethics in any way, excepting that it became free of the reward and punishment angle, which only served to muddy the waters of ethical behavior anyway.
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Old 06-05-2011, 01:12 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,812,220 times
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote:
I agree with much of your post, but when I had my 'crisis of faith' in 1968, I didn't have any thought of turning to nihilism. I simply stopped believing in gods. It didn't affect my sense of ethics in any way, excepting that it became free of the reward and punishment angle, which only served to muddy the waters of ethical behavior anyway.
And I agree with yours.
Except I find the existence of gods totally irrelevant.

My crisis of faith started the moment I discovered that love and religion are 2 different things.
Like I've posted before I believe that God=Love and I see God the same way I view love.
With this understanding I view organised religion (like for example the Catholic Church) the same as atheism, imo they focus too much on logos.
I believe that theists who do not understand the concept of love will never understand their holy text or deity.

In short: I believe that organised religion isn't any different from modern education where people are taught what to think instead of how to think. This is because education (like religion) focuses too much on (book) knowledge instead of (personal) experience.
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Old 06-05-2011, 11:54 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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Well, OK. I'm all for Love, I'll just leave off the God.

I agree that teaching how to think is very important and that the modern tactic of "teaching to the test" is just absurd. However, personal experience will take one only so far. You're not going to experience many things personally which can only be learned about in books, online, etc. For example, I love amateur astronomy, but I wouldn't know squat about using a telescope or how celestial mechanics work without reading about them. It is great to be able to experience some of the things I have read about at the eyepiece, though.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:24 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote:
However, personal experience will take one only so far. You're not going to experience many things personally which can only be learned about in books, online, etc.
True, but I don't see the need to want to know (or experience) everything.
I mean I admit that my knowledge of physics or math is the bare minimum simply because I don't find it necessary for my survival.

I'm more interested in how society and the individual work anywayz. And yet the things that I'm truly interested in I've experienced myself. ( Often because of circumstance or out of necessity than of choice.)
But there is no need to be a brain surgeon to figger out how people think.
And to figger out how society works you only need to know thyself.

In short: to use your analogy, when I'm interested in astronomy there is no need to know how a telescope works in order to use it.
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Old 06-07-2011, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,996,789 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
In short: to use your analogy, when I'm interested in astronomy there is no need to know how a telescope works in order to use it.
Since you value experience more than book learning, I would think that if you were interested in astronomy, you would want to experience as much of it as you could. In which case, I can assure you that it helps to know how a telescope works in order to use it!

And I'm not interested in learning about "everything". I could live a million years and not have enough time (or storage capacity) to do that!
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Old 06-08-2011, 03:50 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,812,220 times
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Originally Posted by catman
Quote:
Since you value experience more than book learning, I would think that if you were interested in astronomy, you would want to experience as much of it as you could. In which case, I can assure you that it helps to know how a telescope works in order to use it!
Maybe.
I'm lazy and will only learn things I find necessary.
I guess I'm just lucky that so far the things I find necessary I also find interesting.
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Old 06-08-2011, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Las Vegas
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Atheism isn't necessarily a step in awareness, because quite frankly the belief in a god too me is irrelevant. People can progress spiritually, raise their consciousness, and attain enlightenment believing in god or not.
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Old 06-08-2011, 01:19 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,996,789 times
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It may be irrevelant to you on the face of it, but when it mixes with politics and government it isn't.
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