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Old 05-27-2011, 08:07 PM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,887,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
I agree that a moment of silence would have been the better choice.

But other than just not wanting to hear it, it didn't kill the boy.
Sitting at the back of the bus, drinking out of separate water fountains and hearing racist remarks every day didn't kill Rosa Parks, either.

Quote:
And so he created a fuss big enough to hit national news, and he brought a lot of misery on himself. Those are the consequences, and this boy will hopefully learn to pick his battles more wisely with time.
The battle against Christian's unearned and undeserved privilege in society and their desire to hijack our schools, rewrite our history, destroy legitimate science, and turn this nation into a Biblical theocracy is probably the most important battle its citizens will ever fight. Actually, it is a fight we've been in since the founding of the nation, since EVERY victory in the advancement of civil rights, equality, liberty and freedom has been won in conflict with Christian and Biblical "morality" and principles.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:13 AM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,113,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
Sitting at the back of the bus, drinking out of separate water fountains and hearing racist remarks every day didn't kill Rosa Parks, either.
I would hate to see how those who actually faced true racism In the 60s would react to your comment.

Some goofy kid speaking out of emotion to another goofy kid i hardly see the same as what went on in the 60s. I'm as atheistic as the rest of you, but - this is one of those moments where you gotta say "who cares?" and just get on with it.

I've sat silently through many prayers and never empowered that moment to affect me. I simply shut my yap, watched everyone else, and got on with my life. I've never looked back and made those moments more than they deserve to be, never thought "I should of said something..." as its a meaningless moment and...there's much more important things in my life than to bother with them...

Atheist who empower those moments ill never understand...
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:01 AM
 
2,726 posts, read 4,520,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Sorry, but in this case, the school was disobeying the law.

How would these Christian kids feel if a Muslim child was the valedictorian and prayed to Allah? They would be outraged, I am sure. In that moment of silence, people could pray anything they wanted no matter what their religion and atheist kids could simply reflect on their own values.

This is NOT a problem for only one student, but he was the only one with the courage to speak up.
I am not debating courage, just looking at the fallout with his family. What is done is done, no harm done.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:58 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,887,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
I would hate to see how those who actually faced true racism In the 60s would react to your comment.

Some goofy kid speaking out of emotion to another goofy kid i hardly see the same as what went on in the 60s. I'm as atheistic as the rest of you, but - this is one of those moments where you gotta say "who cares?" and just get on with it.

I've sat silently through many prayers and never empowered that moment to affect me. I simply shut my yap, watched everyone else, and got on with my life. I've never looked back and made those moments more than they deserve to be, never thought "I should of said something..." as its a meaningless moment and...there's much more important things in my life than to bother with them...

Atheist who empower those moments ill never understand...
This is exactly the same as what went on the 60's. Racism was about white privilege and superiority. This is about Christian privilege and superiority. There are in fact a vast number who experienced racism in the 60's (which was strongest in the Christian Bible belt btw) who are fighting right alongside not only non-Christians but also gays to end Christian oppression against those groups.

Oh, and for the last time - I'm not an atheist, thanks. You don't have to be an atheist to be a patriot and defender of the constitution. Of course it does require that you do more than "shut your yap" and yawn "who cares" like you so lazily and cowardly prescribe.
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Old 05-28-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Westcoast
313 posts, read 386,974 times
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This is crap. What you're saying is that a mass of people is supposed to kowtow to just ONE imbecile for the sake of "political correctedness". This was graduation and Damon was there to receive his diploma LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! That's the focal point of the ceremony to which he was not denied.

If you ever have a son who loses his life serving in the military and his funeral is disrupted by a team of anti-war protestors (who'd have absolutely NO GOOD reason to even be there), I'd bet you wouldn't be so quick to kowtow to their so-called rights.
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:25 AM
 
1,745 posts, read 1,887,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunJoaquin View Post
This is crap. What you're saying is that a mass of people is supposed to kowtow to just ONE imbecile for the sake of "political correctedness".
The only kowtowing has been to Christians, and for FAR too long. The party's over.

Mr. Fowler is no imbecile and he does not stand alone. It is not for the sake of political but Constitutional correctness.


Quote:
This was graduation and Damon was there to receive his diploma LIKE EVERYONE ELSE!
So was the Christian a$$ who hijacked it and made it into a religious statement.

Quote:
That's the focal point of the ceremony to which he was not denied.
Right, as long as he and the rest of the graduates got a clear message of Christian privilege and superiority first.

Quote:
If you ever have a son who loses his life serving in the military and his funeral is disrupted by a team of anti-war protestors (who'd have absolutely NO GOOD reason to even be there), I'd bet you wouldn't be so quick to kowtow to their so-called rights.
Not even remotely similar to this situation. A funeral is a personal and private ceremony where religion has a place if the individual being interred desired such.

Of course, the most heinous funeral protesters are usually Christians like those of Westboro Baptist Church...
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Old 05-28-2011, 10:49 AM
 
16,119 posts, read 17,943,466 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunJoaquin View Post
This is crap. What you're saying is that a mass of people is supposed to kowtow to just ONE imbecile for the sake of "political correctedness". This was graduation and Damon was there to receive his diploma LIKE EVERYONE ELSE! That's the focal point of the ceremony to which he was not denied.

If you ever have a son who loses his life serving in the military and his funeral is disrupted by a team of anti-war protestors (who'd have absolutely NO GOOD reason to even be there), I'd bet you wouldn't be so quick to kowtow to their so-called rights.
A funeral is a private ceremony on private ground. That's not the same as having prayer at a public school. However, the Supreme Court has ruled in favor of the Westboro Baptist Church in allowing them to exercise their right of free speech at funerals. I do not agree with what they say, but I defend their right to say it. I would be one of the people who line the funeral route to keep the family from seeing the protest rather than saying they cannot speak. Btw, while I agree they have no good reason to be there, the WBBC disagrees and we don't get to tell them to shut up and go away because *we* disagree.

Why can't Christians in this case see that they could pray silently. After all even the Bible says "But you, when you pray, enter into your closet, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father which is in secret; and your Father which sees in secret shall reward you openly." Matthew 6:6
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
4,464 posts, read 10,011,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
I, personally, see no issue at all with a student praying to Allah. It's that student's moment.
The issue was never whether or not you would take offense to a prayer to Allah. It was an example put forth to shine a light on an inequality.

Let me ask you this: What do you think would happen if an individual led a prayer to Allah at a graduation from a public school in Alabama, or Texas for that matter?

Regardless, it was merely an example and not the point, which is this: Prayer at a public school graduation is inherently exclusive. A moment of silence is inherently inclusive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
I agree that a moment of silence would have been the better choice.

But other than just not wanting to hear it, it didn't kill the boy. And so he created a fuss big enough to hit national news, and he brought a lot of misery on himself. Those are the consequences, and this boy will hopefully learn to pick his battles more wisely with time.

There are LOT of things in life around me that I don't like or agree with, but as a rule I don't expect the majority around me to change just because I don't like something. I work with mostly "dirty liberals" (a term commonly used here, even amongst themselves); I do not bring up politics, let alone try to stir up arguments.
I would say the boy is brave for making a rightful stand (you yourself acknowledge that a moment of silence would be better) when it is an unpopular one.

If everyone goes about their day, always avoiding any potential conflict and "keeping to themselves", there would never be any betterment of society. History is absolutely riddled with people who opposed injustice or inequality, even when that opposition was unpopular, and the world is infinitely better for it. We should congratulate this boy, and thank him for having the integrity and moral fiber to do what so many don't.

And frankly, I suspect this boy feels the same about his parents as I would in his situation; it's better to be alienated and know their true being than it is to live a lie for the sake of "harmony".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesmama View Post
HE stirred the pot. And it was not necessary.
He brought light on a situation that was illegal and morally wrong, it was of the utmost necessity.
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:26 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,113,685 times
Reputation: 1891
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit View Post
This is exactly the same as what went on the 60's. Racism was about white privilege and superiority. This is about Christian privilege and superiority. There are in fact a vast number who experienced racism in the 60's (which was strongest in the Christian Bible belt btw) who are fighting right alongside not only non-Christians but also gays to end Christian oppression against those groups.

Oh, and for the last time - I'm not an atheist, thanks. You don't have to be an atheist to be a patriot and defender of the constitution. Of course it does require that you do more than "shut your yap" and yawn "who cares" like you so lazily and cowardly prescribe.
Lol, yeah - I can't walk the streets without seeing atheists hanging from nooses on trees!

If you think atheists experience racism and segregation just the same as what blacks experienced - you've must of been taught a real short and light version of history.

And again - ill never understand those who think complaining because others pray makes them "brave." ...perhaps those of us who couldn't care less have better things (family, career, money, etc) on our mind? I know I atleast do...
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Old 05-28-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Dallas, Texas
1,807 posts, read 2,168,348 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
Lol, yeah - I can't walk the streets without seeing atheists hanging from nooses on trees!

If you think atheists experience racism and segregation just the same as what blacks experienced - you've must of been taught a real short and light version of history.

And again - ill never understand those who think complaining because others pray makes them "brave." ...perhaps those of us who couldn't care less have better things (family, career, money, etc) on our mind? I know I atleast do...
Just because one wrong isn't as horrible as another wrong doesn't mean the first wrong isn't, well, wrong. It's not about comparing which was the worse injustice - injustice is always injustice.

And since this kid had to move out of the state due to death threats and the fact he was disowned, then yea, I'd say he was brave to do the right thing. You personally may have better things to do, but there are plenty of people who want to see this kid suffer.
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