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Old 06-02-2011, 09:55 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,039,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes Yes, well, fact is that before society was even conceived religion was necessary in order for different tribes to cooperate and live together.
Well......that's one theory, I guess.
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Old 06-03-2011, 02:15 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes
Quote:
Not exactly true, while in W. Africa I knew tribes with hundreds of thousands of members, tribes need not be small, Efiks, Ibo, Ibibio, Hausa, Yoruba are large tribal units broken down into clans and villages that cooperate with each other, these tribes tend to be animist, There is no church.
To me a clan is a tribe (family), so several clans (tribes/families) are a nation in my opinion.
And isn't animism considered a religion?
BTW I consider animism 1 of the 1st religions.
To an animist the whole world is their church so they never needed to build 1.

Quote:
Religions do not have a history of co-operation with other religions.
True and monotheistic religions were the worst of them, they cannot tolerate any deviation of what they consider the truth which explains their 'my way or the high way' behaviour.
But I doubt that polytheistic religions like say Hinduism has a problem with other religions.
That is as long as these other religions don't want to wipe them out.
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Old 06-03-2011, 10:07 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,039,288 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Fuzz
That man is born without religion, thus there never was any need for it?
Well, ya got one thing right.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:14 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
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Originally Posted by Dusty Rhodes
Quote:
Well, ya got one thing right.
LoL, man is also born without any knowledge & science.
Heck, unlike some other herd animals man can't even walk the day that he's born.
Does this then mean that man doesn't need to walk?
Or doesn't need knowledge or science since he wasn't born with them either?
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:24 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
And was it not you who claimed that religion is a conversation stopper?
Yes. Try and keep up with the conversation.

1) I said religion is a conversation stopper.
2) You said "I have no faith in money whatsoever, but unlike you I do not see it as a conversation stopper."
3) I pointed out that at no point did I say MONEY was a conversation stopper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
So money, unlike for example gravity, stops existing the moment people stop believing in it
Erm. No. Wrong. Money will still exist. The bits of paper and coin in your hand will not disappear just because no one believes in it. What we use it for will change however. The existence of money is independent of belief… it is real. What we use it for is also nothing to do with belief, but convention.

On another note... a serious question... what is your issue with the proper use of the QUOTE function on this forum?
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:40 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Quote:
3) I pointed out that at no point did I say MONEY was a conversation stopper.
And I pointed out that to me money is religion because people need to believe in it in order for money to work.
So if religion is indeed a conversation stopper than we should not be able to have a conversation about money.
Yet we still are having 1.
Quote:
bits of paper and coin in your hand will not disappear just because no one believes in it
But it will stop having any validity and money without value is just another token (read: another worthless symbol).
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:49 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo And I pointed out that to me money is religion because people need to believe in it in order for money to work.
Thats not the point. The point is that at no point did I say, which you claimed I did, that money is a conversation stopper.

However you can stick to your canard that money is a religion, but it is patently false. The fact is that what we are talking about with money is not religion but convention. Humans do not "beleive" that money has value. Humans have "agreed" that money has value.

And in fact that value is very real because essentially all money is is another form of barter. Barter is very real. It is just the concept of "I have X, you have Y, I want Y, so I will give you X for Y". All money is... is the convetion of adding one more layer there in order to delay the full barter transaction.

Essentially money is just saying "I will barter X for Y, but as I can not get Y instantly, or from you, we will use a temporary medium (money) to complete the barter transation."

Again, this is not religion, faith, beleif or anything of the sort. To say it is is just to display a massive misunderstanding of economics and human trade on your part. It is just a basic human agreement and convention. Money is a methodology by which we a) include more people in a barter transaction and b) ensure that a barter transaction does not need to be completed in one transaction but can be elongated over a period of time without loss to any party involved.

I see my question about your inability to use the quote function went unanswered.
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Old 06-07-2011, 03:01 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,800,908 times
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo
Quote:
Thats not the point. The point is that at no point did I say, which you claimed I did, that money is a conversation stopper.
Nope I've never stated that you find money a religion, simply because I know that you don't.
You believe money to be real (more than a piece of paper).
I've only stated that I find money a religion I do not believe in, simply because unlike other real things like say gravity, money only exists because of humanity.
Quote:
Essentially money is just saying "I will barter X for Y, but as I can not get Y instantly, or from you, we will use a temporary medium (money) to complete the barter transation."
Untrue, right know we also have a 'virtual economy' which messes up 'real economy'.
For example in this virtual economy companies insure mortgages. The thing is that there are companies who insure the insurance. Even the insurance of the insurance get insured by other companies, it even gets to the point where the value of all these insurances combined exceeds the value of mortgage they are insuring and presto we have our housing bubble.
Just like in the case of money, just because man gives something value, does it means that it actually becomes valuable.
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Old 06-09-2011, 12:37 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
Nope I've never stated that you find money a religion
Nor did I claim you did! At this point it is clear that you are not even reading what I write before replying to it!!!

YOU said that I called money a "conversation stopper". I never ever ever said that. Here again is the quote where you claimed that I do think that however:

Again:

1) I said religion is a conversation stopper.
2) You said "I have no faith in money whatsoever, but unlike you I do not see it as a conversation stopper."
3) I pointed out that at no point did I say MONEY was a conversation stopper.
4) Now you are saying that I do not find money to be a religion. Another total non sequitur.

So care to actually try replying to what I wrote THIS time? Or are you going to, once again, reply to something I never said?
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:17 AM
 
6 posts, read 3,669 times
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As an atheistic/agnostic/apathetic I still recognize the need for religion. Many people need to believe in a god or religion just to keep them from behaving badly. Conservatives regularly admit that they get their morals from the bible. In other words, if they did NOT have a guide book to tell them right from wrong they would have NO CLUE!

since millions of people (mostly conservatives) would NOT KNOW that killing or stealing or raping was wrong if they did not
a. have god threaten them with damnation and hell
b. have a bible/guidebook to tell them how to behave
obviously they still need god/religion just to keep them from slaughtering the rest of us
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