Ask An Atheist! (reject, Jesus Christ, choice, America)

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by gospelsaves

Hello. I personally believe in God. I just don’t understand the atheist point of view, and I’m sure all the atheist don’t understand our point of view either

If the choices are A: We were created by God who loves us so much he not only created us...he was willing to come to earth and die for us so that we won't have to suffer. He promises never to leave or forsake us and to one day create a new heavens and new earth for us. He promises that one day all the wrongs in the world will be made right! All he asks us to do is to believe in him and keep the faith. As a reward I get eternal life with him, no sickness...I get happiness and joy. If I choose NOT to believe in him I get eternal torment (which I can understand because why reward people who don't even believe in you). I mean there is no fine print in this contract. Makes sense to me.

As far as A is concerned, which God do you pick? After all every religion on earth seems to contradict every other religion on earth so now we are talking about the semantics of where you are born. If there is a god than every religion on earth must be wrong except for one. And the only reason you have probably chosen Christianity is because it is the one that seems to be the most culturally acceptable to you. To broaden on that, there are tons of different denominations of Christianity so how do you know which one of those is right? And to put it in perspective even further, if only one denomination of one religion (Christianity) is correct than that would mean that only a handful of people would make it into heaven right? Otherwise, we'll all be burning in an eternal lake of fire. So, how do you decide which denomination of which religion is the right one? You obviously don't know. You have enough faith in your own ability to make decisions that you automatically assume you picked the right one.

It kind of reminds me of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade when they walk into the temple and they are supposed to pick the Holy Grail out. The first guy walks in dips his chosen cup in the water, drinks it, and turns into dust. Indiana dips his cup in and lives. He chose the correct one out of MANY cups. So how are you so certain that you "picked" the correct religion? And if you say God helped you pick it than why didn't God help the billions of other people around the world pick it?

Originally Posted by gospelsaves

So my basic question is what do I get from being from a monkey, or bird, cosmic dust or whatever it is that people think we came from. How does that at all possibly benefit me?

Why does something have to benefit YOU in order to exist? What freaking good does a lump of coal sitting at the bottom of a volcano in Hawaii do YOU? What good does Bill Gates' money do YOU? Why are we so selfish when it comes to our own existence? Why does everything have to benefit ME ME ME?

[MacAttack_]

Originally Posted by GCSTroop

As far as A is concerned, which God do you pick? After all every religion on earth seems to contradict every other religion on earth so now we are talking about the semantics of where you are born. If there is a god than every religion on earth must be wrong except for one.

Actually if there is a god they could still all ALL be wrong.

It is entirely possible that the Supreme being has never manifested itself in anyway to anyone on earth, nor cares to.

[GenesisNemesis]

Originally Posted by MacAttack_

Actually if there is a god they could still all ALL be wrong.

It is entirely possible that the Supreme being has never manifested itself in anyway to anyone on earth, nor cares to.

And it's also possible we don't need to recognize a Supreme Being because of that.

[GCSTroop]

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

And it's also possible we don't need to recognize a Supreme Being because of that.

Agreed I need ten

[Jammie]

Genesis, were you brought up in a Christian home and did you go to Sunday School, Bible School, etc? Were you taught to pray as a child?

Was there an incident in your life that made you decide you weren't going to be a Believer or have you always felt this way?

Do you still feel a moral obligation to obey the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule? Or what actually is it that keeps you from stealing or doing whatever you feel like doing for instant happiness?'

How do you believe that we came to be? Do you believe the scientific theory that we were some amoeba in the murky waters who eventually evolved enough to crawl out or exactly how do you think this happened?

Do you really not see things as miracles?

Are you personally a nature lover?

Have you ever read the Bible or do you own one?

Does it upset you when some Christians try to convert you? Do you feel that Christians are less intelligent then atheists?

[GenesisNemesis]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Genesis, were you brought up in a Christian home and did you go to Sunday School, Bible School, etc? Were you taught to pray as a child?

My parents didn't really care whether I prayed, since I was a child, and didn't understand religious beliefs. My dad is an agnostic, and my mom is a non-observant Jew. So I was in pretty much a freethinking family.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Was there an incident in your life that made you decide you weren't going to be a Believer or have you always felt this way?

Well, I was a believer once before, but that was in New-Age stuff. You know, psychics, ghosts, aliens, etc. I believed in all of that. But then when I researched about Science, my entire view changed, and I immediately became skeptical.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Do you still feel a moral obligation to obey the Ten Commandments and the Golden Rule? Or what actually is it that keeps you from stealing or doing whatever you feel like doing for instant happiness?'

Doing whatever I feel like would not bring me instant happiness. For instance, shooting up my high school. I do not want to hurt anyone, and I have never had any thoughts of hurting anyone as an atheist. I'm compassionate, and I'm just too soft to accomplish any of those terrible acts, not that I would if I had a reason, but because there is no reason to commit those terrible acts.

Originally Posted by Jammie

How do you believe that we came to be? Do you believe the scientific theory that we were some amoeba in the murky waters who eventually evolved enough to crawl out or exactly how do you think this happened?

I believe Nature created us, through evolution or otherwise.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Do you really not see things as miracles?

I see those things fortunate occurances, but life isn't full of them.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Are you personally a nature lover?

Yup.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Have you ever read the Bible or do you own one?

I haven't read the entire Bible, because I can't see any way at all how you can reconcile the bad parts with the good.

Originally Posted by Jammie

Does it upset you when some Christians try to convert you? Do you feel that Christians are less intelligent then atheists?

I feel the Christians who are trying to convert me are less intelligent than me, but then again, "they know not".

[Visvaldis]

I am an atheist. It was my choice decades ago, when I started to question many things and developed a cynical view.
By being a christian (or any religion) I would be betraying my own mind and conscience.
There may be christians who are not intelligent, but...
I think that, for the most part, christians are not honest with themselves; they suppress their own thoughts (and questions) due to fear of eternal punishment. Just as well, they believe in eternal rewards for loyalty.
The one word which hasn't yet been used on this thread is "gullible".

[Miss Blue]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

I am an atheist. It was my choice decades ago, when I started to question many things and developed a cynical view.
By being a christian (or any religion) I would be betraying my own mind and conscience.
There may be christians who are not intelligent, but...
I think that, for the most part, christians are not honest with themselves; they suppress their own thoughts (and questions) due to fear of eternal punishment. Just as well, they believe in eternal rewards for loyalty.
The one word which hasn't yet been used on this thread is "gullible".

I am "gullible" Vis..Gullible enough to believe in the most difficult word to explain to an unbeliever "faith". I am gullible enough to look at the beauty of this world and think there is an intelligent design behind..I am gullible enough to believe that there is eternal life after death for those of us who desire it..I am gullible, and not ashamed of it

[pocono-jane]

Originally Posted by Visvaldis

I am an atheist. It was my choice decades ago, when I started to question many things and developed a cynical view.
By being a christian (or any religion) I would be betraying my own mind and conscience.
There may be christians who are not intelligent, but...
I think that, for the most part, christians are not honest with themselves; they suppress their own thoughts (and questions) due to fear of eternal punishment. Just as well, they believe in eternal rewards for loyalty.
The one word which hasn't yet been used on this thread is "gullible".

OMG, I can't believe I am reading this! It's like I'm reading something that I would post, almost word for word! I have also used the word "gullible" in my thought process for those who claim to be believers. They use the word "faith", and that is fine, and OK for their comfort level, but "faith" is not necessarily FACT - it's opinion! I know it boils down to the fact that I don't value the bible as being the ultimate truth. At this point, I don't choose any book or publication to be the "ultimate truth". I'm still "from Missouri" and searching for answers, that I know will never be found in my lifetime! In any case, I do appreciate the vast amount of comments and opinions on this forum, from both sides.

[ninewands]

Originally Posted by Jammie

Genesis, that's very nice of you to do this.

I'm a Christian.

Could you tell me why atheists and agnostics like to hang around the Religion forum? Do they feel it's their responsibility to educate Christians?

I can't speak for GM or the other, but I personally take the religious impulse very seriously.

<derail>My grandfather was a Baptist minister, my Mother taught Sunday School for almost my entire life and I attended a Baptist University for my first undergraduate degree. I only attained a point in my life where I could admit to myself that I really did not believe about 5 years ago. Even though I am an atheist and a secular humanist I still attend church regularly and sing in the choir, although it is at a Unitarian-Universalist church now. I have a large library of religious books and books about religion and religious history and I study them. I find religion to be a fascinating subject.</derail>

Now back to the question. I do not feel a need to "educate" Christians or other theists on any point other than "We are normal people too." There are many beliefs some Christians hold that I do not respect and there are beliefs I hold that I do not expect Christians to respect. What I hope to do by participating in religious fora is to show that even though I don't respect someone's beliefs, it is possible to respect their right to believe those things. I hope the distinction is clear.

To quote Richard Dawkins, agnosticism is a matter of knowledge, atheism is a matter of belief. If we would all be absolutely honest with ourselves we really know absolutely nothing about the supernatural, therefore, remaining perfectly honest with ourselves, we are all agnostics. Some of us admit it, others don't. When it gets to the bottom line Christians are Christians because they choose to be. It is the spiritual path that resonates with their self image and it rings true for them. I can accept that. In my ideal world everyone should be and is free to follow their own path. The fact that my chosen path leads in a different direction does not make me any less moral than they are.

Do atheists like to hang around Christians in their real lives or do they stick to others with their same lack of belief?

Do we have a choice? Christians are ~72% of the population of the US. Non-believers are only 9-14% if you bundle up all the atheists, agnostics, the "non-religious," non-theistic Buddhists, etc. into one big lump. Most of the atheists I know get along well with believers of various sorts because religion is a non-issue for us. It's something we just don't care about.

Are they hoping (even subconsciously) that one of the Christians will say something so profound and so convincing that they'll become believers?

To be honest with you I think the traffic is flowing the opposite direction. The happiest and most "Christ-like" people I have met in my life are the atheists I have come to know in the last five years. That being said, I am not here to proselytize or "convert" anyone. Your path is your path, mine is fine for me but it may not fit your feet.

What do you personally think becomes of souls at our earthly passing?

Nothing. I do not believe in the existence of a "soul" so there is nothing waiting for me after death but oblivion. No Heaven, no Hell, no nothing. That being said, if my life is to have any meaning I must give it meaning myself by doing good for others. If my life is to have any joy, it will be the joy that comes from living the life that creates happiness for myself and for others. If my life is to be filled with love it will be that which flows back to me as a result of the love that I show for others. Being firmly committed to living a life like that, I have no need or desire to believe in an afterlife because I will have created my own heaven on earth.

Peace be with you.