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Old 06-27-2011, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
The laws of physics say it is impossible to create something from nothing.
You are therefore left with two possibilities.
1. That physical matter always existed in some form, which brings you back to the question of where it came from.
2. That physical matter in fact does not exist, and is an illusion created in order for us to play this game. Kind of like a very advanced video game.
3. That we don't understand everything about the laws of physics.
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Old 06-28-2011, 12:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shibumi View Post
All we have to do is look at the knowledge versus time curve. Nowhere does it ever dip downwards, where we know less with time, or have less confidence in the accumulations of science and knowledge. As to religion however, that curve (correct, demonstrable knowledge over time) is going down, always. Fact.

How can anyone dispute this?
This is true, but to play devils avocado on it, it is also worth pointing out that it depends how you measure it.

As our knowledge increases we do indeed know more. However the number of questions open has also increased which in a sense (not a literal one but one worth being aware of all the same) our ignorance has also increased therefore. Or at least the ignorance we ourselves are aware of.

Some people have defined knowledge and wisdom as knowing how much there is that you still do not know and I am somewhat sympathetic to that definition. Those who really seek knowledge are well aware that answering one question can lead to 10 more.

But therein lies both the challenge... and the fun.... of the pursuit of knowledge in this world. Rather than being depressing, I find it exhilarating and the pursuit of knowledge and truth is one I will never give up.
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Old 06-28-2011, 02:12 AM
 
Location: Metromess
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I have long thought of knowledge as being like the Cracker Jacks motto: 'The more you eat, the more you want'. Often, one doesn't know enough to ask other questions until he learns the answers to earlier ones. It goes on ad infinitum. I find that exhilarating as well.
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Old 07-10-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
Just for the sake of discussion, I don't know that the laws of physics existed before the Big Bang.
Interesting, I would suspect that the laws of gravitation were not dependant upon "Og" the caveman, understanding them. Old "Og" may not have understood force being equal to mass times acceleration, but I'll bet he knew it when a rock bounced off of his head. Since I have absolutely a vague understanding/misunderstanding about existence before the Big bang, I suspect that matter existed and followed physical laws long before man was aware of what was going on.
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Old 07-16-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Boise
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Just wanting to get some honest opinions and ideas as to how atheists think we came into existence. For reference, I believe that we were created, although I do not believe that any religous text is accurate in detailing it.

Here are some things I am curious about.

If the "big bang" was the so called beginning of the universe, where did the matter come from that allowed the big bang to happen?

Once the rapid expansion of our universe was underway, how were there any laws at all, such as the speed of light, time, space, etc?

With all of the things that happen such as molecular reactions, atomic and subatomic particles and their behaviors, how did all of those individual elements and parts of matter begin behaving the way they did and why do they continue to behave in a scientifically predictable fashion.



Just a little more info on me: I do believe we were created. I accept that it is possible we were not. I believe our universe is billions of years old. I believe that evolution definitely occurs at some level and have not ruled out any specific parts of evolution in my mind.

Basically, I enjoy pop cosmology and astronomy and am just trying to find out what non believers think when it comes to "how" all matter and reactions, etc came into existence from absolutely nothing. To me, creation is the only thing that makes sense, but I am open to explanations.
well the first response you'll get from this is that if something can't come from nothing then where did god come from? As I see this argument, god had to come from something too - so the basic argument is really the same only we replace the word god with the word universe.

If we're to assume that god simply always has been, why not assume that the universe has simply always been? I mean at least we have pictures of the universe and have sent humans to explore it - the universe is at least something tangible...

There would be plenty of overlapping points of either of these arguments. We're supposed to be to small and incapable of fully understanding god. We're also too small and incapable to fully understand the universe. Seems to make the most sense to me at least.
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Old 07-17-2011, 08:43 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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trying to understand the something from nothing belief

Now...where did you come up with this "something from nothing" belief, certainly no atheist I know professes such a belief. That you do not understand what we believe is understandable, but, kindly refrain from putting words in our mouths, it may be the way you understand it, but it may not be the way WE understand it. The law in physics states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed, it can be altered. By-in-large, our beliefs fall within the realm of physical science.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:51 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Just wanting to get some honest opinions and ideas as to how atheists think we came into existence.
There is a lot we don't know about the origin of the universe, but to give any credibility to a god that looks like us, existing before anything existed, then going abracadabra, and poof there your universe is beyond my comprehension to understand absurdity beyond reason.
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Old 07-18-2011, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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It isn't much of an explanation, is it?
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Old 07-18-2011, 03:14 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
It isn't much of an explanation, is it?
Nope Senor Gato, it certainly does not seem to be.
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Old 07-18-2011, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Earth
24,639 posts, read 24,835,555 times
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To the OP, I don't know and neither do you.

I'd prefer scientific inquiry over the made up sky-daddy theory any day.
If you go with the theory of gods existing, what separates you from prehistoric man who was impressed with sunrise and sunset? Not a blessed thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
There is a lot we don't know about the origin of the universe, but to give any credibility to a god that looks like us, existing before anything existed, then going abracadabra, and poof there your universe is beyond my comprehension to understand absurdity beyond reason.
Hey, it took 6 days, and on the 7th it rested.
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