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Old 07-29-2011, 06:12 AM
 
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Nice little video for everyone who was interested in this thread....

New Scientist TV: How the universe appeared from nothing
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Old 08-08-2011, 10:24 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Trying to understand the something from nothing belief.

I am an Atheist, have been one for 50 years, or so. This "something from nothing" notion is something that more theists claim atheist have. I have known very few other atheist who hold to this absurd notion. Let's try basic physics shall we. "matter can neither be created nor destroyed" just like those religious folks that claim their version of gawd has always existed, most atheists will say that matter has always existed. the notion of some sort of caped crusader sky-daddy zapping everything into existence just doesn't make a lot of sense to us atheists.
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:17 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
Nice little video for everyone who was interested in this thread....

New Scientist TV: How the universe appeared from nothing
So the implication is that a new universe with almost zero energy could pop up into existance before my nose and destroy our current universe? Yet it doesn't? why? weird...
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Old 08-09-2011, 01:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
So the implication is that a new universe with almost zero energy could pop up into existance before my nose and destroy our current universe? Yet it doesn't? why? weird...
I am not sure if that is the implication, however it is worth noting that particles are popping into and out of existence all the time in our universe so one never knows.
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Old 08-09-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
So the implication is that a new universe with almost zero energy could pop up into existance before my nose and destroy our current universe? Yet it doesn't? why? weird...
Umm... Just because something hasn't happened doesn't mean it's impossible for it to happen.
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Old 08-10-2011, 04:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I am not sure if that is the implication, however it is worth noting that particles are popping into and out of existence all the time in our universe so one never knows.
How interesting. Given that we know that not a molecule of our body is the same molecule we had when we were kids and the conclusion that atoms must have appeared from nothing and should still be appearing from nothing then the idea that atoms are appearing (and presumably disappearing) all the time but we don't notice it is not unfeasible.

Thus 'Nothing comes from nothing' is rather a mantra which has limited applicability.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
Just for the sake of discussion, I don't know that the laws of physics existed before the Big Bang.
I suspect the laws have always been applicable. It just took us humans a long time to figure them out, and....odds are, we haven't figured them all out yet.
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
How interesting. Given that we know that not a molecule of our body is the same molecule we had when we were kids and the conclusion that atoms must have appeared from nothing and should still be appearing from nothing then the idea that atoms are appearing (and presumably disappearing) all the time but we don't notice it is not unfeasible.

Thus 'Nothing comes from nothing' is rather a mantra which has limited applicability.
Atoms aren't appearing, only subatomic particles. They also only appear in vacuums and don't exist for long enough to become part of our bodies.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
Atoms aren't appearing, only subatomic particles. They also only appear in vacuums and don't exist for long enough to become part of our bodies.
Understood, though I believe that video snip above said that protons appear.

The point is that, while 'nothing can come from nothing' had the edge, the possibility that atoms might come from nothing is looking more of a possibility.

I (in a clumsy laymans' way) came to the conclusion some time ago that atoms had to be made of nothing but with the capacity of forming patterns with other atoms. I have no evidence, just reasoning. But I just say that it's looking ever more possible. That's all.
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Old 08-10-2011, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Understood, though I believe that video snip above said that protons appear.
Protons are subatomic particles.

Quote:
The point is that, while 'nothing can come from nothing' had the edge, the possibility that atoms might come from nothing is looking more of a possibility.
Well the theory is that space itself contains energy and the particles are converted from it and then back again. I'm afraid I don't know enough about quantum mechanics to explain it in detail, but it doesn't violate the first law of thermodynamics.
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