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Old 06-01-2011, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,339,537 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Not particularly.

Perhaps he's using the same tactics as you and just saying ...it needs no explanation, it just simply IS. Huh?


The present one yes, but before that........??

Me neither. I'm just going along with Occam's Razor. The Universe exists...it has always existed in some form or another. Doesn't hurt the brain as much.
You're just as religious as the rest of them.
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Old 06-01-2011, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,350,640 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
You're just as religious as the rest of them.
re·li·gious (r-ljs)adj.
1. Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity.
2. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text.
3. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty.
4. A member of a monastic order, especially a nun or monk.

1. Nope.
2. Nope.
3. Scrupulous and conciousness. Yeah, suppose so.
4. Nope.
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Old 06-02-2011, 05:52 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 10,880,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
At the risk of attracting sarcasmic ire or ridicule, I will just say that god is not an invention to me. I consider myself spiritual more than religous. I don't care much for organized religion and most of my beliefs in god are focused around prayer and meditation and what I have felt in my heart and soul, not what someone else told me to feel. As I've mentioned before, I have tried to believe that god does not exist, occasionally I have intensely tried to believe it. I've also tried to just not care. My feelings of connectedness to god in a spiritual way is something that I simply cannot deny. It is there, and I feel completely comfortable with it because I know my belief does not exist out of fear, nor does it exist out of being "programmed" to believe it because my beliefs are far different from what was taught to me in my childhood.
I have to say that I am fine with this. In a way I am more fine since I debated Universal consciousness with Mystic Philosopher and I have to be
a bit more sympathetic to the feelings that people have which are called 'The Divine Instinct'.

It may be the contact of ur 'matter' with the matter of the cosmos from which we are made. That 'matter' may be 'conscious - even intelligent. It also may be no more than getting an electric shock.

It may be just a feeling we get when looking at a sunset or seeing some superb architecture or, it has to be said, snorting some crack. It s all to do with our body chemistry.

It may be something evloved to help with our personal and social survival.

Since we don't know, one should logically be agnostic about it and the not know implies not believe. That's all one needs to be atheist. To assume that one's feelings (especially in view of all the religious pump - priming we all get) are reflecting the reality is to rather take reality as a bit too read, which is odd for Theists who constantly try to undermine science by referring to the uncertainties of quantum.

Bu, like I say, if you want to do that, I'm fine with it, but I have to say and feel obliged to say that it is not good evidence for theism of any kind.

Apart from that, it has nothing to do with any of the man - made religions or their ramshackle holy books and theologies, or the authority over others that they claim on that basis, and it is really that which atheism is having a go at.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:12 AM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,284,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
I will just say that god is not an invention to me.
I also imagine that unicorns are not an invention to the people who think there are unicorns, nor are UFOs and alien abduction inventions to the people who think they have been so abducted.

The question is... is there any reason at all on offer from people such as that (and you) to give an iota of credence to the idea that such things exist to people like me? The answer appears to be a resounding and consistent "no".

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
I have tried to believe that god does not exist, occasionally I have intensely tried to believe it.
I have tried to believe that if you fold a sheet of paper 100 times in half that the length it would reach is such that it would take light many, many... MANY.... light years to travel the length of it.

If you do the math on paper you see it is true. Yet actually beleiving it and understanding it in your head is nearly impossible. My inability to truely envision it however does not mean it is true.

Similarly your failure to imagine a universe without such a god entity does not mean that such an entity therefore must exist.
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Old 06-06-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
1,530 posts, read 2,606,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
I have tried to believe that if you fold a sheet of paper 100 times in half that the length it would reach is such that it would take light many, many... MANY.... light years to travel the length of it.
You do know that light years are a unit of length, right?
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:30 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,412,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Just wanting to get some honest opinions and ideas as to how atheists think we came into existence. For reference, I believe that we were created, although I do not believe that any religous text is accurate in detailing it.

Here are some things I am curious about.

If the "big bang" was the so called beginning of the universe, where did the matter come from that allowed the big bang to happen?

Once the rapid expansion of our universe was underway, how were there any laws at all, such as the speed of light, time, space, etc?

With all of the things that happen such as molecular reactions, atomic and subatomic particles and their behaviors, how did all of those individual elements and parts of matter begin behaving the way they did and why do they continue to behave in a scientifically predictable fashion.

Just a little more info on me: I do believe we were created. I accept that it is possible we were not. I believe our universe is billions of years old. I believe that evolution definitely occurs at some level and have not ruled out any specific parts of evolution in my mind.

Basically, I enjoy pop cosmology and astronomy and am just trying to find out what non believers think when it comes to "how" all matter and reactions, etc came into existence from absolutely nothing. To me, creation is the only thing that makes sense, but I am open to explanations.
I don't know. So?

Go back 500 years and ask a learned (for the time) person what caused diseases, and he wouldn't have told you about viruses, bacteria and vectors. He might have offered that some deity or other was responsible.

But science had no explanation.

Ask the same man about mental illnesses. You'll probably get the same vague attribution to a deity.

But science had no explanation.

In other words, the fact that we do not now know a certain thing does not mean we have to invoke a deity as an explanation. So the "But we can't explain X without invoking a deity that can just will things to happen, therefore such a deity must exist!" is not necessary.

You might read up on baryogenesis:
Baryogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You'll find no answers, but you might realize that invocations of magic (or their intellectual equivalents) are not required.
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:39 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,412,404 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
You do know that light years are a unit of length, right?
Wait... next thing you know he'll be claiming he's made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs...
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,992,248 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
Wait... next thing you know he'll be claiming he's made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs...
That is EXACTLY what came to my mind!
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:24 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,209,707 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by TXboomerang View Post
Just wanting to get some honest opinions and ideas as to how atheists think we came into existence. For reference, I believe that we were created, although I do not believe that any religous text is accurate in detailing it.

Here are some things I am curious about.

If the "big bang" was the so called beginning of the universe, where did the matter come from that allowed the big bang to happen?

Once the rapid expansion of our universe was underway, how were there any laws at all, such as the speed of light, time, space, etc?

With all of the things that happen such as molecular reactions, atomic and subatomic particles and their behaviors, how did all of those individual elements and parts of matter begin behaving the way they did and why do they continue to behave in a scientifically predictable fashion.



Just a little more info on me: I do believe we were created. I accept that it is possible we were not. I believe our universe is billions of years old. I believe that evolution definitely occurs at some level and have not ruled out any specific parts of evolution in my mind.

Basically, I enjoy pop cosmology and astronomy and am just trying to find out what non believers think when it comes to "how" all matter and reactions, etc came into existence from absolutely nothing. To me, creation is the only thing that makes sense, but I am open to explanations.
The only correct answer is: "we don't know how the ball got rolling, but roll it did".

That's the beauty of science; seeking an objective understanding without stooping to the even more ridiculous and completely unprovable notion that "god did it".
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Old 06-06-2011, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,209,707 times
Reputation: 14007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
Wait... next thing you know he'll be claiming he's made the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs...
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter!
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