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Old 06-19-2011, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Do we?

If it were finite, then there would have to be a boundary. What would be on the other side of it?

What would we call the area outside of the boundary that contained the 'universe'?
There is no evidence that the universe is finite and the big bang theory doesn't suggest that it must be. However, if it is finite, that doesn't necessarily mean that it ends either. The surface of Earth is finite yet it has no edge.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Sitting on a bar stool. Guinness in hand.
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YouTube - ‪BBC - Everything and Nothing - Nothing‬‏


YouTube - ‪BBC - Everything and Nothing - Everything‬‏

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Quote:
Two-part documentary which deals with two of the deepest questions there are - what is everything, and what is nothing?

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Old 06-20-2011, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Log "cabin" west of Bangor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenshi View Post
There is no evidence that the universe is finite and the big bang theory doesn't suggest that it must be. However, if it is finite, that doesn't necessarily mean that it ends either. The surface of Earth is finite yet it has no edge.
Actually, it does have an edge, you're just looking at it wrong. If you wish to use Earth as a correlation to the Universe then you must look at it as the planet and everything under the surface- the upper surface is the 'edge' and is bounded by the atmosphere, beyond that, is 'space'...which contains other planets...and stars, and galaxies...etc.
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Old 06-20-2011, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zymer View Post
Actually, it does have an edge, you're just looking at it wrong. If you wish to use Earth as a correlation to the Universe then you must look at it as the planet and everything under the surface- the upper surface is the 'edge' and is bounded by the atmosphere, beyond that, is 'space'...which contains other planets...and stars, and galaxies...etc.
No, that's absolutely the wrong way to look at it. You're looking at it as the edge of a three-dimensional object, but I'm saying to look at it as a two-dimensional object that is finite but without an edge. If you were to travel continuously in one direction, you would never reach an end, but would instead pass where you started. It could be that the universe is like that, but with an extra dimension. You can think of it like the surface of a hypersphere, though it wouldn't necessarily be one.

One way to know if a space, whether 2D or 3D, is curved is to draw a triangle and see if the angles add up to 180 degrees. If you draw one on a globe, they will add up to more than 180, and the larger the triangle is, the larger the angles will be. Think of one of the triangles formed on Earth by the equator, prime meridian, and 90 degree west meridian. Both meridians intersect the equator at right angles, as all meridians do, but they also intercept each other at the poles at right angles. That's a triangle with 270 degrees.

We don't really have any way to draw a huge triangle in space and measure the angles, so astronomers somehow used two other objects in distant space. (I can't remember the details. I think they measured the light somehow.) Their measurements came up with 180 degrees. That doesn't necessarily mean that space is flat, but possibly that the triangle is too small compared to the curvature of space for the angles to deviate sufficiently from 180 degrees and our equipment isn't precise enough to detect it. You can decide for yourself if you think space is more likely flat or curved since neither is proven, but I personally think curved space is more elegant.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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The discussion of whether or not the Universe is finite or infinite interests me. There is no proof either way, but if it is finite, it is pointless to speculate about what is on the other side. There is no other side. There is no empty space. It is very hard to comprehend, but it would simply be the edge of everything, although according to the expanding universe theory, the edge is being pushed back. It makes my head hurt a little to try to imagine it.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:00 AM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
The discussion of whether or not the Universe is finite or infinite interests me. There is no proof either way, but if it is finite, it is pointless to speculate about what is on the other side. There is no other side. There is no empty space. It is very hard to comprehend, but it would simply be the edge of everything, although according to the expanding universe theory, the edge is being pushed back. It makes my head hurt a little to try to imagine it.
Pushed back into what??
There would have to be something for it being pushed back into!
I agree....it sure is hard to wrap your head around a nothing that has to be a something
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Old 06-21-2011, 12:39 PM
LWI
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
The discussion of whether or not the Universe is finite or infinite interests me. There is no proof either way, but if it is finite, it is pointless to speculate about what is on the other side. There is no other side. There is no empty space. It is very hard to comprehend, but it would simply be the edge of everything, although according to the expanding universe theory, the edge is being pushed back. It makes my head hurt a little to try to imagine it.
that's why its kinda crazy to think we could understand a possible foreign force called god or whatever. We can't even imagine without having a migraine headache what is happening in our own physcial world. And we wouldn't believe it if we didn't have stuff to extend our eyesight like telescopes etc which makes us inherently wrong about everything.

So see how many atheist were wrong when you think of human history. But then to imagine that an original idea would have to come from someplace is when you start getting into the possible supernatural stuff.

I mean where DO radical ideas come from? Its all too invisible for me.

I mean hey even the internet doesn't have a physicality. But we're all here right? Might as well be call typing in the spiritual world.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:44 AM
 
Location: Metromess
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old_cold View Post
There would have to be something for it being pushed back into!
No, there isn't anything for it to be pushed back into. It's simply(!) that what exists gets larger. Time for the ibuprofen!
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:51 AM
 
Location: Metromess
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LWI: Oh yes, the Internet does have a "physicality". The infrastructure to make it happen is huge. We are using electrons to communicate with one another, which are physical.

When I think of human history, many more theists were wrong than atheists. To put it another way, humans were wrong, although I'm not sure what you mean by "wrong".

As for God, why believe in things one can't understand? That doesn't make sense. And where you get the notion that original ideas must come from a supernatural realm is a mystery to me.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Florida
19,847 posts, read 19,954,681 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
No, there isn't anything for it to be pushed back into. It's simply(!) that what exists gets larger. Time for the ibuprofen!
but,but, for something to get larger there has to be 'space' for it to get larger into!
I prefer Excedrin
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