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Old 06-01-2011, 12:10 PM
 
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How did such things as abstract thinking, love, empathy, compassion , reasoning, etc... ultimately come by way of atheistic Materialism such as rocks/dirt/hydrogen gas/planets, etc ???
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Old 06-01-2011, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
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magic.
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Old 06-01-2011, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
How did such things as abstract thinking, love, empathy, compassion , reasoning, etc... ultimately come by way of atheistic Materialism such as rocks/dirt/hydrogen gas/planets, etc ???
What is atheistic about rocks/dirt/hydrogen, gas/planets, materialism etc?

You are another of many that can't seem to get the meaning of atheism to penetrate your skull. I am an atheist, and the only thing I have in common with all other atheists is that I do not believe in gods...Is that too complicated for you?

Abstract thinking, love, empathy, compassion , reasoning, etc. is something humanity shares, and it didn't come from theism. As a matter of fact theism suppresses reason and logic and that handicaps the kind of thinking you are talking about, particularly reason...Logic and reason are the enemy of the religious.
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Old 06-01-2011, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Texas
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How many times are people gonna ask the same questions over and over and over again?

It's not like the people who ask them are interested in a serious answer anyways. When are god-believers gonna get it through their heads that it isn't an atheist job to do their homework for them? It's like a creationist asking an evolution question, knowing good and well his mind is already made up before he ask it. If you're serious about an answer, you'll put in the time and do a bit of looking into it for yourself.

We all know if someone does take the time to give you a serious answer, you'll just resort to the tried and worn out god of the gaps argument. We've only seen it play out like that a million times before already around here.
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Old 06-01-2011, 09:25 PM
 
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Originally Posted by achickenchaser View Post
How many times are people gonna ask the same questions over and over and over again?

It's not like the people who ask them are interested in a serious answer anyways.
As long as atheists keep making the same Moderator cut: delete statements about materialism and instead take the time and effort to pursue it diligently (as Arequipa did) until they recognize the inherent contradictions in the philosophy. But most of you are not interested in any serious answers anyway.

Last edited by june 7th; 06-11-2011 at 06:26 AM..
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
How did such things as abstract thinking, love, empathy, compassion , reasoning, etc... ultimately come by way of atheistic Materialism such as rocks/dirt/hydrogen gas/planets, etc ???
Which of these functions of the brain you mention are non-material? More importantly, how do you know?
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
What asinine statements about materialism? I must be missing something. Can you give me an example?
All of the places where naturalists don't say that since gravity works it means that Jesus loves us very much.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
What asinine statements about materialism? I must be missing something. Can you give me an example?
It is simply my stance that the materialist view or theory is good enough explanation for the way we are. I explained this to Mystic from the near nothing atoms coming from nothing through the coming together of matter and the emerging of the inherent physical laws of matter, the combining of complex chemicals into biochemicals and thus evolving into life and all that we call 'consciousness' being inherent in the way atoms react with one another, chemicals react with one another and lifeforms react with internal and external stimuli.

Since human consciousness is evidently related to other animal consciousness, I would have thought that the overall coherence of the theory made sense, especially when it is based on all we have been able to discover.

However, Mystic dismissed this as 'asinine' on the basis of a few broad (not to say obtuse) questions about 'what actually is it?' and tossing in some unclear distinctions between science and belief.

After a lot of discussion, it became clear that his whole remarkably ingenious theory is based on something called 'The hard Question' which uses philosophy to argue that not only cannot materialism explain what consciousness is (which is neither here nor there) but apparently proves that there must be 'something more' which might well be called 'god'.

I do not buy it for a minute but I can't argue against a head of a Philosophy academy when I admittedly don't have expertise in Philosophy and can't understand this debate anyway.

This leaves me with the possibility that Mysticism is really connection with cosmic matter, but you will see that this is open to many interpretations and, in that absence of any proper scientific research, the philosophical side still has to make any kind of sound case and I have to stick with the materialist view I outlined above.

I also had an equally acrimonious debate on how Philosophy related to science. It is not experimental and while it can come up with some very useful ideas and hypotheses it needs science to find out which ones are right and the mind - experiments of philosophy have never been very reliable a proof on anything.

Now I must leave it to others to decide whether my case of a materialist explanation
(To recap, near nothing atoms coming from nothing through the coming together of matter and the emerging of the inherent physical laws of matter, the combining of complex chemicals into biochemicals and thus evolving into life and all that we call 'consciousness' being inherent in the way atoms react with one another, chemicals react with one another and lifeforms react with internal and external stimuli.)
is more worthy of credit than the apparent implications of the Hard question, which is only a question, after all, not an answer.

In other words, philosophy doesn't appear to have come up with any other evidence - based counter theory. Mystic's long and complex theory (which I did read) is full of 'possibly' and 'could be's'. So while it's an interesting theory it is evidence of nothing. Science is evidence of material occurrences. I think it has the best - indeed the ONLY scientific bases and we should logically stick with it.
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Old 06-02-2011, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Golden, CO
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Great post, Arequipa! Where may I find Mystic's hypothesis/theory? I asked him for it and have yet to see it. I am a materialist as well. I took a history of science course in grad school that had an entire section composed of readings for and against materialism. You may find the reading arguing for materialism useful. I see if I can find them.

I may disagree slightly with some of what you said in your post above, but they are minor, and I am not sure that I understood what you meant. I hope you are following the discussion I have been having with Mystic in the main Religion forum. I think the thread is titled something like: "was your parents created DNA?" http://www.city-data.com/forum/relig...eated-dna.html
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Old 06-02-2011, 11:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Chango View Post
magic.
Magic ?! I thought atheists were champions of science ., not desperate hope.
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