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Old 06-17-2011, 09:12 AM
 
58 posts, read 39,207 times
Reputation: 23

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Really? So no one else has any say in it, right? Like planned parenthood and their government funding? And the tax payer who has to pay for abortions for those who can't afford them?
Actually, PP does not direct the patient to take a certain course. They offer contraception, medical care for women with little income, etc. They do not tell anyone to get an abortion. And their free contraception for low-income women probably prevents more abortions than they perform.

Taxpayer funds are not used by PP for abortions.

Quote:
Just your phrasing says a lot. "Allowing" would indicate that they have the final say in the issue. Thus negating your claim of a personal freedom. It is not freedom if you have to ask to be "allowed" to do something.
Anyone who has taken a 5th-grade civics class realizes that our rights are essentially those things that the powerful "allow" us to do. Doesn't matter which party is in power, that's the nature of orderly human society. I really can't tell what you're driving at here, but it sounds like a failed attempt to regurgitate your parents' "conservative" views.

Quote:
Perhaps you should actually read the 2nd amendment. It ascertains the right to bear arms, not "allow" people to do so. Big difference which, of course, you fail to see with your agenda.
LMAO, "Ascertains"? Perhaps you should actually read a dictionary.

The 2nd Amendment grants the right to bear arms. Period. It's called the "Bill of Rights," not the "bill of things we have ascertained about America." It's the government granting rights; I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, libertarian, or green party.

Quote:
As for requiring a warrant, yes it sticks its nose in personal liberties. Countless times these warrants have been issued on mere speculation, no substantive facts. And nothing found. An invasion of privacy.
Yes, and Republicans are more likely to infringe on these rights to privacy. Ever wonder who was in power when the PATRIOT Act was drafted? Want to guess which justices opposed the Right to Privacy in the Constitution, and which side of the political aisle they leaned to?

Quote:
Your neighbor must have a very intelligent cat. You could learn from it.
Yeah, he can vomit hair and play with string. And he knows what the Bill of Rights is.

Plus I bet it could figure out the "quote" function, even just once.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:16 AM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,681,960 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Really? So no one else has any say in it, right? Like planned parenthood and their government funding? And the tax payer who has to pay for abortions for those who can't afford them?
Planned parenthood isn't telling people to get abortions. Women are deciding that on their own. Funny how you can't give women the benefit of the doubt on that. As for taxpayers for abortions, that's just a right-wing myth. But what would you recommend to a woman who's been raped or the victim of incest? What if carrying the baby to term threatened her health? Would you force these women to have the babies? Funny how conservatives are so pro-life, but the moment the baby's born, they don't want to have anything to do with it. Education? Sorry, you're on your own. Health care? Sorry, you're on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
"Allowing" would indicate that they have the final say in the issue. Thus negating your claim of a personal freedom. It is not freedom if you have to ask to be "allowed" to do something.
"Allowing" here is being used to mean "recognizing". There was a time when blacks couldn't marry whites. Now the law "allows" them to do so. Why? Because it was something they had the right to do all along. The law just failed to recognize it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
As for requiring a warrant, yes it sticks its nose in personal liberties. Countless times these warrants have been issued on mere speculation, no substantive facts. And nothing found. An invasion of privacy.
Wrong. Your logic is backwards. You're using instances of bad warrants to claim that warrants invade your rights. Good grief. The warrant is meant to safeguard personal liberties. Without warrants, police could invade your home for no reason at all and get away with it.
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Old 06-17-2011, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Ohio
20,052 posts, read 14,310,256 times
Reputation: 16212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megatron11 View Post
Yes, and Republicans are more likely to infringe on these rights to privacy. Ever wonder who was in power when the PATRIOT Act was drafted?
Ever wonder who was in power when the Patriot Act was extended?

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Old 06-17-2011, 09:54 AM
 
8,468 posts, read 13,681,960 times
Reputation: 7539
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Ever wonder who was in power when the Patriot Act was extended?
And who is it that's pushing him in that direction? That's right. Republicans, the ones who claim that you have to be "tough" on terrorists in order to win the "war", even though that war has no clearly defined end and even it means spying on people to win it.
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:08 AM
 
58 posts, read 39,207 times
Reputation: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Ever wonder who was in power when the Patriot Act was extended?
Very true. But it doesn't change the fact that an ideological chasm exists between the GOP and Dems insofar as Right to Privacy is concerned. Simply put, the GOP favors it far less than the Dems.

Honestly, I don't have a whole lotta problems with most of the Patriot Act. My problem was with the MANNER in which it was passed in 2001 -- 200 miles from 3,000 smoking dead bodies, with an emotionally fragile nation willing to sign anything to "prevent" more massacres and punish the evil ones. That's not a responsible way to evaluate people's privacy rights.

8 years later, it has been tested and evaluated. At least when Obama extended it, there was some thought involved.

There's another difference between Dems and the GOP. One party tends to think more than the other, respectively.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:34 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,278,582 times
Reputation: 3602
[quote=DennyCrane;19630882]
Quote:
Planned parenthood isn't telling people to get abortions. Women are deciding that on their own. Funny how you can't give women the benefit of the doubt on that. As for taxpayers for abortions, that's just a right-wing myth. But what would you recommend to a woman who's been raped or the victim of incest? What if carrying the baby to term threatened her health? Would you force these women to have the babies? Funny how conservatives are so pro-life, but the moment the baby's born, they don't want to have anything to do with it. Education? Sorry, you're on your own. Health care? Sorry, you're on your own.
Once again, pure leftist spin, as expected, on your part.

Quote:
"Allowing" here is being used to mean "recognizing". There was a time when blacks couldn't marry whites. Now the law "allows" them to do so. Why? Because it was something they had the right to do all along. The law just failed to recognize it.
Look it up in a non-leftist dictionary for the meaning of allow. Libs spin it to mean what they want and change definitions all the time.

Quote:
Wrong. Your logic is backwards. You're using instances of bad warrants to claim that warrants invade your rights. Good grief. The warrant is meant to safeguard personal liberties. Without warrants, police could invade your home for no reason at all and get away with it.
Wrong, your logic is non-existant. You seem to admit that what I cite has happened, but that is okay because you approve of it. No such thing as a "bad warrant", merely poor excution of said warrant and invasion of your personal space.
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Old 06-17-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,946 posts, read 8,278,582 times
Reputation: 3602
[quote=Megatron11;19630816]
Quote:
Actually, PP does not direct the patient to take a certain course. They offer contraception, medical care for women with little income, etc. They do not tell anyone to get an abortion. And their free contraception for low-income women probably prevents more abortions than they perform.

Taxpayer funds are not used by PP for abortions.
Actually, they do council toward abortion. Miss the undercover "gotcha" interviews by those who destroyed Acorn?

Quote:
Anyone who has taken a 5th-grade civics class realizes that our rights are essentially those things that the powerful "allow" us to do. Doesn't matter which party is in power, that's the nature of orderly human society. I really can't tell what you're driving at here, but it sounds like a failed attempt to regurgitate your parents' "conservative" views.
Anyone with any adult thought process would realize that if something has to be "allowed" it is not a right. You are buying into what your masters are telling you.

Quote:
LMAO, "Ascertains"? Perhaps you should actually read a dictionary.
After you read a series of books that encourage being truthful to yourself and what reality is, not what you want it to be.

Quote:
The 2nd Amendment grants the right to bear arms. Period. It's called the "Bill of Rights," not the "bill of things we have ascertained about America." It's the government granting rights; I don't care if you're liberal, conservative, libertarian, or green party.
No, the 2nd amendment acknowledges the right to bear arms. The government is recognizing that people will bear arms whether or not they want it.

Quote:
Yes, and Republicans are more likely to infringe on these rights to privacy. Ever wonder who was in power when the PATRIOT Act was drafted? Want to guess which justices opposed the Right to Privacy in the Constitution, and which side of the political aisle they leaned to?
Exactly where do you think(?) that I said that I am in total agreement with either party? Wishful thinking on your part again.


[quote]
Yeah, he can vomit hair and play with string. And he knows what the Bill of Rights is.
Quote:

Then he would appear to me smarter than you.

Quote:
Plus I bet it could figure out the "quote" function, even just once.
After many hours of tutoring and being allowed to use in all likelihood.
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Old 06-18-2011, 12:59 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,697,890 times
Reputation: 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by gabfest View Post
An obsession shared by both crowds. However, I cannot believe the amount people that espouse they believe in no God but obsess about God all the days long. It's creepy.
Good & funny point, Gabfest!
Known spiritual leaders explained how they'd never join any protest of anti anything, only pro-something.
It's from the idea of "what comes around goes around" or law of attraction - we get what we focus on.
So focusing on what we don't want attracts it.

I wonder why people obsess about what they don't believe.
I've probably done this too, maybe it's an exploration process, or just good ol' debate.
Maybe they do believe in God, but it doesn't feel good to believe in the traditional God, so they're trying to fight it.
Or maybe they were hurt by the belief in God & try to save others from that harm.
Or simply for a same reason some proselyte - to help confirm their beliefs (or lack of them) by convincing others.
Maybe they want to believe in something, yet the closest thing their logical minds can accept is the belief in not believing in God.

Who/What is God?
And who says so?

Last edited by SuperSoul; 06-18-2011 at 01:10 PM..
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Old 06-18-2011, 02:09 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,030,198 times
Reputation: 5080
The only reason I "obsess" about not believing in a god is the encroachment of religion into politics, combined with the bombardment of specious 'reasons' for belief. Yes, I can be a decent human being and have an ethical foundation without needing to believe in a god. The "Golden Rule" (which did not originate with Judeo-Christianity) and all its corollaries sum it up rather well.
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Old 06-19-2011, 08:04 PM
 
2,379 posts, read 2,697,890 times
Reputation: 1191
Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
The only reason I "obsess" about not believing in a god is the encroachment of religion into politics, combined with the bombardment of specious 'reasons' for belief. Yes, I can be a decent human being and have an ethical foundation without needing to believe in a god. The "Golden Rule" (which did not originate with Judeo-Christianity) and all its corollaries sum it up rather well.
Catman,
I believe you are a decent human being with an ethical foundation despite not believing in a god.
In fact, the little I know about you, you do seem to be a deep thinker, which shows a possibility for deeper understanding & compassion.

I wonder... How do you define God? (When you speak of God, are you mostly referring to the God of the bible?)
Do you believe we know all there is to know?
Do you consider all knowledge to be based on scientific study?
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