What's your fantasy afterlife? (atheists, worship, God, heaven)

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Jason28

You cannot disprove a negative. This is why there are nearly 100,000 religions in the world. Everyone is open to interpret anything in any way they choose.

Yet the complete lack of evidence, with billions and billions of people seeking over thousands of years validates the negative, and provides nothing to add any validity of ancient superstitions.

The lack of evidence also contributes to the many thousands of variations as the ancient superstitions are free to manipulated at will by men with agendas, phobias, or even mental illness.

After searching all your pockets repeatedly, reason dictates one should finally recognize the reality that you do not have your car keys in your pocket, and believing they are there will not produce them.

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Yet the complete lack of evidence, with billions and billions of people seeking over thousands of years validates the negative, and provides nothing to add any validity of ancient superstitions.

The lack of evidence also contributes to the many thousands of variations as the ancient superstitions are free to manipulated at will by men with agendas, phobias, or even mental illness.

After searching all your pockets repeatedly, reason dictates one should finally recognize the reality that you do not have your car keys in your pocket, and believing they are there will not produce them.

Oh, but I think we'll miss religion when it's gone though, the idea of purehearted folk innocently following the flock. Without religion the world will cry for childish foolishness. It will want Santa, but Santa will not answer. Without religion the whole of reality will crash down onto our heads, each of our evils clinging to us, permenant stains. We'll never be rid of them. No God could forgive us.

Now, of course, the non-religious do good merely to do good. In the future, should there be no more religion, there would be no one to be better than. Who would remind us that to kill one innocent to save a thousand is evil, without religion? Such a prospect is insane, and yet it keeps society functioning, and keeps our morals strong.

I think the world would be boring without religion, without fairies and dragons. Isn't one purpose of life to avoid boredom?

[catman]

Originally Posted by Clintone

Who would remind us that to kill one innocent to save a thousand is evil, without religion?

I can find many things to do which are less boring than to listen to people telling me what the "Word of God" is. Now that gets old!

[Yzette]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Well if 'wishing' were to be done I'd really like to see the facebook of the afterlife with pictures taken when all those duped into believing come to the realization, there is none, they are just dead, after spending a life time on a fools errand of trying to get their ticket to heaven validated.

It would probably look something like:

And there we'd all be like:

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Clintone

Oh, but I think we'll miss religion when it's gone though, the idea of purehearted folk innocently following the flock. Without religion the world will cry for childish foolishness. It will want Santa, but Santa will not answer. Without religion the whole of reality will crash down onto our heads, each of our evils clinging to us, permenant stains. We'll never be rid of them. No God could forgive us.

Now, of course, the non-religious do good merely to do good. In the future, should there be no more religion, there would be no one to be better than. Who would remind us that to kill one innocent to save a thousand is evil, without religion? Such a prospect is insane, and yet it keeps society functioning, and keeps our morals strong.

I think the world would be boring without religion, without fairies and dragons. Isn't one purpose of life to avoid boredom?

We're going to miss religion for the exact same reason why we search for aliens. We like meeting people with different mindsets, regardless of how crazy they are. We like to have someone to compare our throughts to. It provides a kind of testing ground for world views, something to challenge them. Also, why do so many people miss nationwide Native American nations so much? They are constantly romanticized. They had different views than Europeans, and these different views resulted in conflict. Vastly more trouble came about because of these differing views. Why do we miss endangered species? There are tribes whos members are eaten by big cats, and such tribes are frequently major forces in protecting them from extinction, because they want them around. I think religion is fine unless it's obviously something worse than a lack of religion. On average, it has been shown to be potentially more damaging to society than a lack of religion, but I do not think these results are consistent. Poorer, worse off, more criminally active nations generally have higher percentages of religious people, but poorer, worse off, uneducated people tend to be more likely to be religious. The less educated someone is, the less likely they'll be able to understand evolution, which is a major argument against religion. The less well off financially someone is, the more stealing that television set can mean to them. Some poverty stricken folk are going to want something definite, rather than mere goodness to society, to keep from stealing that TV. Without religion, society could very well be more productive due to lowering intolerance over religious differences, essentially resulting in less poor, but still, that TV's hanging in the window. Also, atheists have a lower crime than other religions, according to some statistics I have seen. However, atheists are more likely to be educated, well off people than theists. The white collar crimes well-off people commit, tax fraud and such, tend to be more difficult to catch than something like stealing a car. I don't think atheists are necessarily more morally rightious than theists either.

[Asheville Native]

Originally Posted by Clintone

Now, of course, the non-religious do good merely to do good. In the future, should there be no more religion, there would be no one to be better than. Who would remind us that to kill one innocent to save a thousand is evil, without religion? Such a prospect is insane, and yet it keeps society functioning, and keeps our morals strong.

If religion disappeared today, that would be true, all these people with no moral compass aside from the superstition based irrational fear driven behavior that is incorrectly called christian morals. The people that have to constantly refer to their "list" learned from their superstition are the lost, apparently incapable of moderating their behavior save for the irrational fear of going to hell.

Atheists don't need a list of fear driven rules (follow the rules or the big bad god will send you someplace unpleasant after you die). If that is what makes you a moral person, then you are a greater danger to yourself and society than you realize. If you had a natural or personal moral compass you could follow you would be a much better person and without the need to ancient superstitions to moderate your behavior.

[Jason28]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Yet the complete lack of evidence, with billions and billions of people seeking over thousands of years validates the negative, and provides nothing to add any validity of ancient superstitions.

The lack of evidence also contributes to the many thousands of variations as the ancient superstitions are free to manipulated at will by men with agendas, phobias, or even mental illness.

After searching all your pockets repeatedly, reason dictates one should finally recognize the reality that you do not have your car keys in your pocket, and believing they are there will not produce them.

I was saying from a logical stand point you cannot disprove a negative. For example, prove I can't fly. It's impossible, just like you can't prove the non existance of santa clause or the flying spaghetti monster. In my mind, I agree that because there are thousands of religions they negate one another but each one based on it's own merit, can't be negated due to the fact that whatever diety they believe in cannot be proven to not exist.

I also wasn't necessarily talking about physical waking reality when it comes to your thoughts directly influencing your life. Your subconscious mind can be changed through a number of different methods or by simple trial and error or experience.

People can have experiences and interpret them to be whatever they want. For example, I barely made it to work on time today because I didn't hear either one of my alarm clocks going off but I managed to wake up, on my own, with just enough time to not be late. Now a religious person would exclaim "Oh thank Jesus for waking me up on time" whereas I simply go, "Phew that was close". To that person, they truly believe Jesus woke them up in the nick of time so they wouldn't be late for work. That thought dynamic appears irrational under closer observation but that's a separate discussion. More or less, to them, what they believe in that instance becomes real. And when something like that becomes real in their every walk of life, as strange as it may seem to us, they believe it. This becomes compounded when it has things backing it up in the bible like faith being a virtue and whatnot (in this case, faith believing in something that isn't there by any of the five detectable senses).

Originally Posted by Clintone

Now, of course, the non-religious do good merely to do good. In the future, should there be no more religion, there would be no one to be better than. Who would remind us that to kill one innocent to save a thousand is evil, without religion? Such a prospect is insane, and yet it keeps society functioning, and keeps our morals strong.

I think the world would be boring without religion, without fairies and dragons. Isn't one purpose of life to avoid boredom?

The purpose of life isn't necessarily to avoid boredom but it is whatever each individual makes it. For some it's religion, for others sports, sex, food, entertainment, etc... It can be whatever anyone wants. The problem comes when someone tells others what their life should or shouldn't be (government, religion, politics, etc...).

People do good to one another because it inherently benefits them and morals have nothing to do with religion. Basic evolution teaches us this. The bible has commandments in it such as kill your children if they curse their parents and specific instructions for what happens when someone beats their slave to death. It is 100% apparent we get zero morals from the bible or any other book.

Evolution teaches us that, in order to benefit one another, people have evolved to behave in a manner which helps them further their own progress. For example, if everytime you left town your neighbor Doug had sex with your wife, Doug would be branded a mistrusted outcast. Eventually people would stop trading goods with Doug and people would want him removed from the town because everyone would fear Doug is going to sex up their wives if they are away on business. Directly because of that, others are encouraged to behave in a way they would like to be treated so that they are deemed an upstanding member of society. The need for food and shelter is higher than the desire to have sex with someone else's wife. Needs > wants, therefore people generally behave in a way that is acceptable to others so they don't starve or freeze to death.

Originally Posted by catman

I can find many things to do which are less boring than to listen to people telling me what the "Word of God" is. Now that gets old!

Indeed! I generally think "Word of God" to be glossolalia (fabricated non meaningful speech associated with schizophrenia).

Originally Posted by Clintone

Without religion, society could very well be

Let me finish that for you. Without religion, society could very well be unlimited and truly free. The twin towers would likely still be standing. Wars in Ireland where protestants and catholics lay land mines in fields for one another's children wouldn't happen. And on, and on, and on. Religion, more specifically christianity, is the reason for more death and destruction on this planet than any other cause in our known human history. Religion is synonomous for death, plague, destruction, and torture. It is truly a disease that rots away at any semblance of an intelligent and organized society and promotes ignorance through brainwashing and fear.

I hate religion and am looking forward to the day where it will be history. The reason I can't stand it is because it causes untold suffering and war. Because I believe in "Live and let live", I would like to see religion abolished. But I want it to be abolished of the people's own free will, not because some government rolls in with tanks and forces it upon the general populace.

[Fleet]

Originally Posted by Asheville Native

Afterlife is a fantasy.

How do you know that?

[Clintone]

Originally Posted by Jason28

I was saying from a logical stand point you cannot disprove a negative. For example, prove I can't fly. It's impossible, just like you can't prove the non existance of santa clause or the flying spaghetti monster. In my mind, I agree that because there are thousands of religions they negate one another but each one based on it's own merit, can't be negated due to the fact that whatever diety they believe in cannot be proven to not exist.

I also wasn't necessarily talking about physical waking reality when it comes to your thoughts directly influencing your life. Your subconscious mind can be changed through a number of different methods or by simple trial and error or experience.

People can have experiences and interpret them to be whatever they want. For example, I barely made it to work on time today because I didn't hear either one of my alarm clocks going off but I managed to wake up, on my own, with just enough time to not be late. Now a religious person would exclaim "Oh thank Jesus for waking me up on time" whereas I simply go, "Phew that was close". To that person, they truly believe Jesus woke them up in the nick of time so they wouldn't be late for work. That thought dynamic appears irrational under closer observation but that's a separate discussion. More or less, to them, what they believe in that instance becomes real. And when something like that becomes real in their every walk of life, as strange as it may seem to us, they believe it. This becomes compounded when it has things backing it up in the bible like faith being a virtue and whatnot (in this case, faith believing in something that isn't there by any of the five detectable senses).



The purpose of life isn't necessarily to avoid boredom but it is whatever each individual makes it. For some it's religion, for others sports, sex, food, entertainment, etc... It can be whatever anyone wants. The problem comes when someone tells others what their life should or shouldn't be (government, religion, politics, etc...).

People do good to one another because it inherently benefits them and morals have nothing to do with religion. Basic evolution teaches us this. The bible has commandments in it such as kill your children if they curse their parents and specific instructions for what happens when someone beats their slave to death. It is 100% apparent we get zero morals from the bible or any other book.

Evolution teaches us that, in order to benefit one another, people have evolved to behave in a manner which helps them further their own progress. For example, if everytime you left town your neighbor Doug had sex with your wife, Doug would be branded a mistrusted outcast. Eventually people would stop trading goods with Doug and people would want him removed from the town because everyone would fear Doug is going to sex up their wives if they are away on business. Directly because of that, others are encouraged to behave in a way they would like to be treated so that they are deemed an upstanding member of society. The need for food and shelter is higher than the desire to have sex with someone else's wife. Needs > wants, therefore people generally behave in a way that is acceptable to others so they don't starve or freeze to death.



Indeed! I generally think "Word of God" to be glossolalia (fabricated non meaningful speech associated with schizophrenia).



Let me finish that for you. Without religion, society could very well be unlimited and truly free. The twin towers would likely still be standing. Wars in Ireland where protestants and catholics lay land mines in fields for one another's children wouldn't happen. And on, and on, and on. Religion, more specifically christianity, is the reason for more death and destruction on this planet than any other cause in our known human history. Religion is synonomous for death, plague, destruction, and torture. It is truly a disease that rots away at any semblance of an intelligent and organized society and promotes ignorance through brainwashing and fear.

I hate religion and am looking forward to the day where it will be history. The reason I can't stand it is because it causes untold suffering and war. Because I believe in "Live and let live", I would like to see religion abolished. But I want it to be abolished of the people's own free will, not because some government rolls in with tanks and forces it upon the general populace.

My scenario for a mostly non-religious world:

The non-religious would be superior in almost every way to the religious. They would be smarter. They would work more efficiently. They would likely have a lower crime rate. They would be happier. They would essentially be better. What has happened historically when one group is essentially more usefull to the community than a minority, or when a minority was particularly troublesome? - Ethnic cleansing or discrimination. Diversity brings peace. There is no easier way to create diversity than through religion. Race cannot be changed. Religion can change with thought.

I could see how organized religion could be a bad thing, resulting in the un-questioning mindset that may give the person happiness, but be irritating for everyone else, or vice-versa. However, I see no such dangers for agnostic theists, who hypothetically challenge their own beliefs. Also, since when did the Bible have anything to do with Christian beliefs? The only people who pay attention to the Bible word for word, I would not trust with power tools. Most Christians I know have a view of Jesus that reflects their model of a good person, have ideas about Christianity that reflect their views of what it means to be a good person, and follow at least some of the Ten Commandments. They also say that they believe in God, but not necessarily hell. Religion serves as a way to spread one's views about what it means to be a good person to other members of that religion, regardless of what a given holy book says. I recognize that religion does create fanatics, and general slimeballs, but I believe the percentage of agnostic religious folk is growing. This, of course, depends on the section of a given nation in question though. I do not live below the Bible belt, and from stories I've heard, I have come to pity atheists and agnostics who do.

Worship a baked potato for world peace. Comments?

[mikebnllnb]

Good micro brews and great live music everyday. And monthly college basketball tournaments.