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Old 06-24-2011, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,778,703 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Your "god-of-the-gaps", the gaps in man's knowledge about the universe we live in is really the "god-of-our-ignorance". As those gaps in our ignorance (missing knowledge) are filled, the gap god will continue to shrink.

Science won't answer the question about god, but will answer the unknowns which are currently attributed to god, thus eliminating god through the need to explain away unknowns as 'god magic'.
Yes.....this is what I was referring to.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
Figured. So much for "if you cant prove its impossible, you have to accept its possible," as it applies to everything else.

However, youre making some huge assumptions..

1. That god would be a possible reason for our exiatence.
2. That theres a gapping hole in our existence only a god could fill.

Its as if you believe scientists are just standing around "how did we get here?! We have nooo idea!"

Nevermind the further questions a god existing outside the universe would bring up...

1. How did he get here.
2. What is he exactly.
3. Are there more of him.
4. Whats outside the universe.

And blah blah blah - when you just say "i dont care about those...just that he exists" its quite a way to allow your want of a belief to overwhelm everything else.
I'm actually quite proud of what science has been able to discover.

As for questions 1-4, of course I can't answer those. It's not that I don't care.

Finally, it's not really a WANT of belief; it's more of a wondering of what is really going on. You can argue against something that may possibly be true, I would rather wonder what the implications are if it is true. If there were clearly no God, we would not be able to have this discussion. If there is a God, this discussion is much more interesting.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:38 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
What evidence are you using to dismiss the pink unicorn as a creator god? I thought you had to give everything that might possibly exist a chance. Unless you can prove it's impossible that the pink unicorn created us you should accept that it is just as possible as gods.
If you claim that the pink Unicorn created us, I will entertain the possibility of it's existence. Tell me more about it.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
No, we do not exist through the "magic" of some god with a long beard and white robes. Magic is reserved only for the stage, and yet there is not magic, only the slight of hand that gives the illusion of magic.
Who said anything about robes and beards? I want to know more about this pink Unicorn God. Of course, if someone told you that ANY sort of thing created the universe, your response would be "No it didn't". I am glad that you are able to have such certainty. It must make your life so much easier. Then again, you do posit your completely unsubstantiated and undefended(by you) position repeatedly on internet forums with much vitriol. So go figure.
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Old 06-24-2011, 08:50 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I "think" what this poster isn trying to say is that there is no reason to even assume that the pink unicorn exists, however, since there is "something rather than nothing" there is reason to assume that a God may exist. Call it a " God-of-the-gaps" if you like, but as long as science hasnt answered this question, it remains a valid argument. When and if science does answer this question, then we will talk about dismissing the entire concept of a Creator God.
This. The difference is that I don't believe that science has narrowed the gaps. If I were a God, and had created a universe with certain "scientific" laws, I don't see any reason why I should have to defy those laws to bring my creation into effect. Especially if I am timeless. Evolution, in particular, seems an especially efficient way to bring about my creations in a timeless bubble. Not to mention the previously discussed arguement towards reliable cognitive faculty resulting from truth guided evolution vs. Naturalistic guided evolution.

Evolutionary argument against naturalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,305 posts, read 11,212,063 times
Reputation: 14176
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I "think" what this poster isn trying to say is that there is no reason to even assume that the pink unicorn exists, however, since there is "something rather than nothing" there is reason to assume that a God may exist. Call it a " God-of-the-gaps" if you like, but as long as science hasnt answered this question, it remains a valid argument. .
No. Pointing out the existence of a gap in knowledge does not make your particular favored explanation any more likely than any other proffered explanation.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:16 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccullough View Post
No. Pointing out the existence of a gap in knowledge does not make your particular favored explanation any more likely than any other proffered explanation.
Especially if you believe that YOUR particular favored explanation will someday fill the "gap". Of course, that is regardless of whether you believe that there is a possible gap to fill in the first place, or that any new aquired knowledge can fill in such a "gap". But, of course I will admit, it certainly requires that you don't believe that the earth is 6 to 14 thousand years old or that Noah's ark rests upon Sinai. Since my own view is that God is possible, and also that it makes sense for any possible God to use the laws of "nature" to complete it's objectives(since such a God is supposed to have created such laws), then to me, science is simply an uncovering of those laws. On the other hand, of course I could be wrong.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:31 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,108,712 times
Reputation: 1891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
I'm actually quite proud of what science has been able to discover.

As for questions 1-4, of course I can't answer those. It's not that I don't care.

Finally, it's not really a WANT of belief; it's more of a wondering of what is really going on. You can argue against something that may possibly be true, I would rather wonder what the implications are if it is true. If there were clearly no God, we would not be able to have this discussion. If there is a God, this discussion is much more interesting.
I highlighted two interesting parts of your response.

1. "it's more of a wondering of what is really going on"

- so have you seriously studied science and particularly evolution? An inquisitive mind looking for the "how" has two options:

A: Science: Evolution is here, now, offers specific predictions (that have been shown to be correct, as in the recent finding of Tiktaalik, where evolution both predicted the location of and the physiological adaptations of the "fish"). In the lab, predictions of speciation where demonstrated (and reproduced over and over) via Dianne Dodd and her fruit fly experiment. Further, examples of speciation have been found all over the world such as on islands and within caves (we talked about it much more in my ecology class, but that was years ago and I only vaguely remember.) Even further - viruses in your body readily adapt and evolve against new medication. Evolution is evolving (as is the nature of science), and becoming more refined as new discoveries are made.

B. Religion: I would suspect this would be a lot of speculation, relying on what "feels" right. I imagine a lot of emotions would be involved in this, and that it would be very personal, and of course non-testable, with no physical support or really anywhere for an inquisitive mind to go - aside from "God did it.."

So as someone spending time "wondering what is really going on" - can I ask which you spend your time with?

2. "If there was clearly no God, we would not be able to have this discussion."

Seriously ask yourself - what makes you say that?

My prediction (this may be a bit creepy) - there's an emotional side of you that's pulling you in, and telling you there has to be a God. You're feeling a warmth and a comfort deep within you that you're taking to be a sign that *he exists* and your soul just absolutely recognizes it. What you have to recognize is - the child at Christmas looking over his gifts feels the same way towards Santa. What you're feeling is an emotional response to the idea of a creator watching over you. Because it's the idea that brings about the feeling deep within you - you can exchange one God for another (Allah, Satan, etc), for any set (pagan gods, etc), or...even Santa if you're young enough to have not had it ruined. God is the same way, just there's a very good business (The Church) in charge, and poor Santa has an actual deadline he has to show up for or everyone starts to wonder.

Blah, I gotta be honest, I felt creepy typing that.
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,334,714 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEarthBeneathMe View Post
I highlighted two interesting parts of your response.

1. "it's more of a wondering of what is really going on"

- so have you seriously studied science and particularly evolution? An inquisitive mind looking for the "how" has two options:

A: Science: Evolution is here, now, offers specific predictions (that have been shown to be correct, as in the recent finding of Tiktaalik, where evolution both predicted the location of and the physiological adaptations of the "fish"). In the lab, predictions of speciation where demonstrated (and reproduced over and over) via Dianne Dodd and her fruit fly experiment. Further, examples of speciation have been found all over the world such as on islands and within caves (we talked about it much more in my ecology class, but that was years ago and I only vaguely remember.) Even further - viruses in your body readily adapt and evolve against new medication. Evolution is evolving (as is the nature of science), and becoming more refined as new discoveries are made.

B. Religion: I would suspect this would be a lot of speculation, relying on what "feels" right. I imagine a lot of emotions would be involved in this, and that it would be very personal, and of course non-testable, with no physical support or really anywhere for an inquisitive mind to go - aside from "God did it.."

So as someone spending time "wondering what is really going on" - can I ask which you spend your time with?

2. "If there was clearly no God, we would not be able to have this discussion."

Seriously ask yourself - what makes you say that?

My prediction (this may be a bit creepy) - there's an emotional side of you that's pulling you in, and telling you there has to be a God. You're feeling a warmth and a comfort deep within you that you're taking to be a sign that *he exists* and your soul just absolutely recognizes it. What you have to recognize is - the child at Christmas looking over his gifts feels the same way towards Santa. What you're feeling is an emotional response to the idea of a creator watching over you. Because it's the idea that brings about the feeling deep within you - you can exchange one God for another (Allah, Satan, etc), for any set (pagan gods, etc), or...even Santa if you're young enough to have not had it ruined. God is the same way, just there's a very good business (The Church) in charge, and poor Santa has an actual deadline he has to show up for or everyone starts to wonder.

Blah, I gotta be honest, I felt creepy typing that.
Good post, but I believe in evolution, and am not "religious".
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Old 06-24-2011, 09:37 PM
 
1,429 posts, read 2,108,712 times
Reputation: 1891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgiafrog View Post
This. The difference is that I don't believe that science has narrowed the gaps. If I were a God, and had created a universe with certain "scientific" laws, I don't see any reason why I should have to defy those laws to bring my creation into effect. Especially if I am timeless. Evolution, in particular, seems an especially efficient way to bring about my creations in a timeless bubble. Not to mention the previously discussed arguement towards reliable cognitive faculty resulting from truth guided evolution vs. Naturalistic guided evolution.

Evolutionary argument against naturalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Did you not read this statement in that wiki:

Firstly, they criticised Plantinga's use of a Bayesian framework in which he arbitrarily assigned initial probabilities without empirical evidence, predetermining the outcome in favor of traditional theism, and described this as a recipe for replacing any non-deterministic theory in the natural sciences, so that for example a probable outcome predicted by quantum mechanics would be seen as the outcome of God's will.

???

That's not exactly how honest science works...
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