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Old 07-09-2011, 04:33 PM
 
Location: San Antonio TX
127 posts, read 243,793 times
Reputation: 113

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• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?

• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.

• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
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Old 07-09-2011, 05:18 PM
 
Location: Golden, CO
2,108 posts, read 2,499,176 times
Reputation: 1018
I don't believe an objective morality exists: Easy to be Entreated: Does An Objective Morality Exist?

But, I do believe we evolved to be social animals because our chances for survival and hunting success are improved when we cooperate and help each other. So, we evolved to have some pro-social tendencies. Different societies of humans throughout history have codified those pro-social behaviors into laws or moral statements. We also evolved to maintain some self-interest. At times those two motivators (pro-social and self-interest) come in conflict with one another, so societies have made laws and consequences to promote pro-social behavior because selfish actions can quickly dissolve social cohesion.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
6,868 posts, read 6,197,101 times
Reputation: 6164
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?

• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.

• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
At it's core, a "moral value" is essentially developed from a "thought". In this case, the said thought is one that is shared by a group of individuals. More specifically, this "shared thought" is a unifying one based on the observation that behaving in a specific manner will be beneficial to the whole group of individuals.

Physics and chemistry dictate that the observations are made through the senses. Neurochemistry/physics dictate through synapses in the brain that said thought is generated. Neurochemistry/physics help process the thought into language that can be communicated to others in the group, who through neurochemistry/physics process the information and the others are able to agree with said thought.

Voila', a "moral standard" is born within the group.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:56 PM
 
Location: Rivendell
1,387 posts, read 2,166,698 times
Reputation: 1650
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?
Who says that everything must be explained by laws of physics and chemistry? Why would you think that?


Quote:
• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values?
Objective moral values do not exist.

Quote:
Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.
This is silly. How would a physical event "spew forth" an abstract concept?

Quote:
• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference?
Nothing.

Quote:
What makes it truly binding or obligatory?
Nothing.

Quote:
Why can’t I just ignore it?
You could. But you might end up in jail, or socially ostracized.

Quote:
Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
Yes, it will.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:01 PM
 
16,598 posts, read 14,081,890 times
Reputation: 20563
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?
No, if you are an atheist everything must have a natural explanation. There are many other laws than just physics and chem.

This is a bit of a strawman but I will play for the moment. Morals are just another form of altruism. Altruism frequently allows a species or group to survive longer than they would without.

Quote:
• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.
Morals are not objective. Morals are inherently SUBJECTIVE that is why there are different morals in different parts of the world.

Another strawman.

Quote:
• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
And morals that stem from a 3000 yr old book are not SUBJECTIVE? If they are not subjective how come people are not being stoned for working on Sundays since that is a MORAL based on the Bible? Every religion picks and chooses which "morals" they will follow as does each individual within that religion. There are lots of religious people who are simply cherry picking which morals they can ignore every day.

Again, you are acting as if religion has the moral high ground. That is not factual, therefore the rest of your logic falls apart.
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:02 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,966,937 times
Reputation: 8282
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?

• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.

• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
Look it up in your book of ancient superstitions, except you aren't looking for answerModerator cut: deleted

Last edited by june 7th; 07-23-2011 at 09:01 AM.. Reason: Referring to another member's posts as trolling = a "personal attack" per mod manual.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Tuscaloosa,AL
138 posts, read 215,605 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.
Wow.....
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:37 PM
 
Location: it depends
6,074 posts, read 5,336,077 times
Reputation: 5771
Quote:
Originally Posted by kendsley View Post
• If everything ultimately must be explained by the laws of physics and chemistry, help me understand what a moral value is (does it have mass, occupy space, hold a charge, have wavelength)?

• How did matter, energy, time and chance result in a set of objective moral values? Did the big bang really spew forth “love your enemy?” If so, you have to help me understand that.

• What makes your moral standard more than a subjective opinion or personal preference? What makes it truly binding or obligatory? Why can’t I just ignore it? Won’t our end be the same (death and the grave) either way?
The closest thing to a central organizing principle in my life is the free market. I don't worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster, your god, Baal, Ra, or any similar entity.

My prosperity is dependent on the amount and quality of service I render to the people around me, and to their opinion of me as a trustworthy partner, and someone to look up to and listen to. So if I want to thrive, I have to follow the Golden Rule, I have to honor my father and mother, I can't lie, cheat or steal, and I can't run around with my neighbor's wife, etc. Don't need the Good Book, although its got some of the same stuff in it.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:05 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,881 posts, read 31,773,106 times
Reputation: 12629
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Look it up in your book of ancient superstitions, except you aren't looking for answers, your are merely trolling.
Yup...Three [mod] deleted [/mod ]questions, not worth responding to.

Last edited by june 7th; 07-10-2011 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 07-10-2011, 01:06 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,047,275 times
Reputation: 3984
Digression spoken here!!!! "IKBO" In the W. African Rainforest of Nigeria there is an organization called the "IKBO MASQUERADE", a truly interesting group that don masks and enforce certain cultural norms and, by a quirk of Nigerian Law, Animism is protected, those wearing masks are not held legally responsible for their actions, The Mask has it's own spirit and takes over the personality of the wearer. Ergo, the IKBO MASQUERADE are sometimes used for political assassination. "It wasn't me your honor, the mask made me do it" is a legally viable defense.
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