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Old 08-11-2011, 11:06 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
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I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology..........Thomas Jefferson

So far as I can remember, there is not one word in the Gospels in praise of intelligence....
Bertrand Russell

The inspiration of the bible depends on the ignorance of the person who reads it.....Robert G. Ingersoll

It ain't the parts of the Bible that I can't understand that bother me, it is the parts that I do understand....Mark Twain

“This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it”....John Adams.
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Old 08-12-2011, 05:37 AM
 
Location: New York City
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Put in his mouth by whom?
I was once a Christian and back in the 80s, I remember an evangelist closing out his sermon by claiming Voltaire, the atheist, cried out to Jesus and died in agony claiming he (Voltaire) was defeated by the "Nararene" (Jesus). Supposedly he cried out that he was feeling the flames of hell. I remember folks flooding the altar to "accept Jesus" as their savior.

Over 25 years later, I decided to look into the claim and I realized that, first of all, Voltaire was NOT an atheist. He was a deist who had some form of belief in a god, but had NO faith in the organized church and often ridiculed it and those who made up its membership. Second, the quote you provided is often ONLY found in the camp of Christians which is highly suspect. It reminds me of the [alleged] affirming words of Josephus in regards to Jesus that were presented to the world by the Christian bishop and KNOWN forger, Eusebius. In the version Eusebius presents, Josephus, a Jew who lived a few years after the supposed time of Jesus, has some amazing words of praise for Jesus while an Arabic version of the same excerpt shows something different.

What I am saying is that Voltaire's alleged deathbed confession makes for great Christian propaganda, but the confession seems too clean, too perfect and too unlike the words of a doting 83 year old. In a time when the church was losing influence to the growing force of the enlightenment that was sweeping Europe, what better grasp at straws to use than to claim that one of Europe's most vocal and well known "atheists" cried out to Jesus and admitted hell was (supposedly) real?

Ironically, the evangelist I listened to back in the early 80s proved my point. He included, in his altar call, words that were never uttered by Voltaire and frankly, added words to the basic [alleged] quote which goes to show how the quote can grow legs. He did this in a time BEFORE the benefit of the internet where checks and balances can be quickly made. So, it is not hard to
imagine the embellishments being repeated by someone else and then someone else and then another and before you know it, Voltaire was hanging out with Jesus having drinks on the night he died.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:54 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Here's a few oldies but goodies:
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post

Voltaire: ‘I am abandoned by God and man…I shall go to hell.’

Thomas Paine: 'I would give worlds, if I had them, that the "Age of Reason" had never been published. Oh, God, save me; for I am at the edge of hell alone…’

Thomas Carlyle: I am as good as without hope, a sad old man gazing into the final chasm.’

Sir Thomas Scott, Chancellor of England: ‘Until this moment, I thought there was neither God nor Hell…Now I know and feel that there are both, and I am doomed to perdition by the just judgment of the Almighty…’

Edward Gibbon, author: ‘All is dark and doubtful.’

Mazarin, French cardinal: ‘Oh, my poor soul! What will become of thee? Whither wilt thou go?’

Thomas Hobbes, political philosopher and sceptic: ‘I am about to take a fearful leap into the dark.’

Sir Francis Newport, sceptic: ‘I know I am lost forever! Oh, that fire! Oh, the insufferable pangs of hell!
Great people, great words, all would take head to read their other quotes and also the context of these, plus the full and actual quotes said within such context, as some of these people spoke a different language.

For example, Voltaire(Francis Marie-Aroute) was a devout Agnostic, who believed more in secularism and Deism than Atheism. The above quote by him likely is in response to how he felt abandoned by Christians and other hell believing theists (the majority of human population).

Thomas Paine was very tired of having been persecuted so ruthlessly for his believes. His book drew him more infamy than fame. In other times, he would have been burned at the stake for being an “infidel” a.k.a. atheist writer whom we call “militant atheist” as most theists wish to never hear of atheists but only talk disrespectfully about them even though atheism is such a small, meaningless word which was created by the Romans to persecute the Christians and other “infidels” and was later adapted by the Christians for their purposes.

I don’t know about the other people, but I assume they were Ex-Christians that were old and senile.

Today, most scholarly Atheists and Agnostics don't believe we should stop at secularism because it gives such a chance for the more pertinant and false-beliefs to spread; which gives theists a chance to persecute us as soon as Deist numbers dwindle because of their lack of "culture" and "rituals". most Theists never settle on mere theism, they always seem to go out of their way to do harm against this world and those who disagree with any of their beliefs(theists do this through religion, although it helps them be good people too sometimes).

Last edited by LuminousTruth; 08-12-2011 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 08-12-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Insane, he wasn't saying that Christ was going with him to hell. He was crying out to Christ.
I call out such explicatives all the time, like Voltaire, I am Ex-Christian and very well educated in Christianity and was in the hands of and lived around with people of one of its denominations.

of course, what he supposedly meant by "I will take you with me" i do not know.
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:15 PM
 
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While the idea is for atheists to post their favourite quotes by atheists, Kiggy can technically use it to post some alleged deathbed recantation. I already posted the evidence that the one by Paine is a LIE a dirty theist LIE and the one that was aimed at Gibbon, (author of decline and fall of the Roman empire also seemed to be the next best thing to a theist lie.

So by all means post alleged deathbed recanting words by atheists and we shall probably be able to find good reason to believe that they are yet another sorry example of lying theist dishonesty. And Kiggy will have done more for atheism than all of us put together.

Found the ones I did on Paine and Gibbon.

Thomas Paine: 'I would give worlds, if I had them, that the "Age of Reason" had never been published. Oh, God, save me; for I am at the edge of hell alone…’

I'll repost the one on Paine.
The following affidavit was subscribed and sworn to by William B. Barnes of Wabash, Indiana, October 27, 1877:

"In the year 1833 Willet Hicks made a visit to Indiana and stayed over night at my father's house, four miles east of Richmond. In the morning at breakfast my mother asked Willet Hicks the following questions:

"'Was thee with Thomas Paine during his last sickness?'

"Mr. Hicks said: 'I was with him every day during the latter part of his last sickness.'

"'Did he express any regret in regard to writing the "Age of Reason," as the published accounts say he did?'

"Mr. Hicks replied: 'He did not in any way by word or action.'

Did he call on God or Jesus Christ, asking either of them to forgive his sins, or did he curse them or either of them?'

"Mr. Hicks answered: 'He did not. He died as easy as any one I ever saw die, and I have seen many die in my time.'"

he above is corroborated by Dr. Philip Graves who met Mr. Woodsworth in 1842. Dr. Graves says:

"He told me that he nursed Thomas Paine in his last illness, and closed his eyes when dead. I asked him if he recanted and called upon God to save him. He replied, 'No. He died as he had taught. He had a sore upon his side and when we turned him it was very painful and he would cry out, "O God!" or something like that.' 'But' said the narrator, 'that was nothing, for he believed in a God.' I told him that I had often heard it asserted from the pulpit that Mr. Paine recanted in his last moments. The gentleman said that It was not true, and he appeared to be an intelligent truthful man."

Paine's executors were Walter Morton, a lawyer of New York, and Thomas Addis Emmet, a brother of Robert Emmet, the Irish patriot. Both attended Paine and both testified that no change took place in his opinions. Mr. Morton, who was present when he expired, says:

"In his religious opinions, he continued to the last as steadfast and tenacious as any sectarian to the definition of his own creed."

, William Cobbett, afterwards a member of Parliament, wrote a refutation of it. Mr. Cobbett's refutation, ...,"to calumniate him has been an object of their peculiar attention and care. Among other things said against this famous man is, that he recanted before he died; and that in his last illness he discovered horrible fears of death."

"I happen to know the origin of this story, and I possess the real original document whence have proceeded these divers editions of the falsehood....a Quaker of New York, named Charles Collins, made many applications for an interview with me, which at last he obtained. I found that his object was to persuade me that Paine had recanted...."The informer was a Quaker woman, who, at the time of Mr. Paine's last illness, was a servant in the family of Mr. Willet Hicks, an eminent merchant,
... To our surprise, on seeing Mr. Hicks, as a duty which we owed the public, we learned that Mary Hinsdale never saw Paine to Mr. Hicks' knowledge;"

Those interested in the truth rather than pious lies can read the whole thing here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/hist...chapter_1.html (broken link)

Regarding Gibbon:

At twelve, he drank some brandy and water from a tea-pot, and desired his favourite servant to stay with him. These were the last words he pronounced articulately. To the last he preserved his senses; and when he could no longer speak, his servant having asked a question, he made a sign, to shew him that he understood him. He was quite tranquil, and did not stir; his eyes half- shut. About a quarter before one, he ceased to breathe. The valet de chambre observed, that Mr. Gibbon did not, at any time, shew the least sign of alarm, or apprehension of death; and it does not appear that he ever thought himself in danger, unless his desire to speak to Mr. Darell may be considered in that light.' 7 | Other reports of Mr. Gibbon’s death were circulated at the time, But the above proceeds from an authority which cannot be doubted. The religious public was eager to know the last sentiments of Mr. Gibbon on the important point which constituted his grand defect, but we find that there were no persons near him at his death to whom that was a matter of curiosity; and it appears that he did not think his end approaching until he became incapable of collecting or expressing his thoughts. If he has, therefore, added one more to the number of infidels who have died in full possession of their incredulity, let it be remembered that, as he saw no danger, he had no room to display the magnanimity which has been ostentatiously ascribed to dying skeptics.

Anyone who wants to make this thread even brighter by showing up the grubby attempts of our fellow poster Kiggy to make Theist propaganda points by posting refutations of some of these deathbed recantations will receive their rewards in the Eternal Bierkellars of the paradise of Athe.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-12-2011 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:27 PM
 
Location: WV and Eastport, ME
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Atheism is a non-prophet organization. - George Carlin
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Old 08-12-2011, 01:52 PM
 
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Tell me to stop if you - all think I'm off - topic.

I found one about GB Shaw

The science to which I pinned my faith is bankrupt Its counsels which should have established the millennium, led instead directly to the suicide of Europe. I believed them once. In their name I helped destroy the faith of millions of worshippers in the temples of a thousand creeds. And now they look at me and witness the great tragedy of an atheist who has lost the faith. George Bernard Shaw

Do a Google on select portions of this quote (in quotation marks), and guess what pops up? You got it religious websites decrying atheism. Closer inspection shows (surprise!) that not one of them ever cites the work this quote is from.

It took a bit of searching, but I double-checked the fact listed here, which states:

Evangelist and editor Homer Duncan has been instrumental in spreading this fraud. The words are actually from Act 3 of Shaw's 1932 play Too Good to be True. Shaw, incidentally, was not an atheist (Free Inquiry, Winter 1985/86: 37-38).
biblioblography: Lies The Christians Tell: George Bernard Shaw


Voltaire: I am abandoned by God and manI shall go to hell.

The curate of St. Sulpice was annoyed at being forestalled by the Abbe Gautier, and as Voltaire was his parishioner, he demanded "a detailed profession of faith and a disavowal of all heretical doctrines." He paid the dying Freethinker many unwelcome visits, in the vain hope of obtaining a full recantation, which would be a fine feather in his hat. The last of these visits is thus described by Wagniere, who was an eyewitness to the scene. We take Carlyle's translation: --

Two days before that mournful death, M. l'Abbe Mignot, his nephew, went to seek the Cure of St. Sulpice and the Abbe Gautier, and brought them into his uncle's sick room; who, on being informed that the Abbe Gautier was there, "Ah, well!" said be, "give him my compliments and my thanks." The Abbe spoke some words to him, exhorting him to patience. The Cure of St. Sulpice then came forward, having announced himself, and asked of M. de Voltaire, elevating his voice, if he acknowledged the divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ? The sick man pushed one of his hands against the Cure's calotte (coif), shoving him back, and cried, turning abruptly to the other side, "let me die in peace (Laissez-moi mourir en paix)." The Curd seemingly considered his person soiled, and his coif dishonored, by the touch of the philosopher. He made the sick- nurse give him a little brushing, and then went out with the Abbe Gautier. ['Carlyle's Essays,' Vol. II. (People's Edition), p. 161.]

A further proof that Voltaire made no real recantation lies in the fact that the Bishop of Troyes sent a peremptory dispatch to the Prior of Scellieres, which lay in his diocese, forbidding him to inter the heretic's remains. The dispatch, however, arrived too late, and Voltaire's ashes remained there until 1791, when they were removed to Paris and placed in the Pantheon, by order of the National Assembly.

Voltaire's last moments are described by Wagniere. We again take Carlyle's translation: --
He expired about a quarter past eleven at night, with the most perfect tranquillity, after having suffered the cruelest pains in consequence of those fatal drugs, which his own imprudence, and especially that of the persons who should have looked to it, made him swallow. Ten minutes before his last breath he took the hand of Morand, his valet-de-chambre, who was, watching him; pressed it, and said, "Adieu, mon cher Morand, je me meurs -- Adieu, my dear Morand, I am gone." These are the last words uttered by M. de Voltaire. [Carlyle, Vol. II., p. 160.]

Thomas Carlyle.

This is copyrighted so I can't paste but the last words were about wanting five minutes more to talk to those around him and 'Goodbye'.
read the last hours yourself, here.

Thomas Carlyle - Biography and Works. Search Texts, Read Online. Discuss.
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Old 08-12-2011, 02:53 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Voltaire's last moments are described by Wagniere. We again take Carlyle's translation: --
He expired about a quarter past eleven at night, with the most perfect tranquillity, after having suffered the cruelest pains in consequence of those fatal drugs, which his own imprudence, and especially that of the persons who should have looked to it, made him swallow. Ten minutes before his last breath he took the hand of Morand, his valet-de-chambre, who was, watching him; pressed it, and said, "Adieu, mon cher Morand, je me meurs -- Adieu, my dear Morand, I am gone." These are the last words uttered by M. de Voltaire. [Carlyle, Vol. II., p. 160.]
Adieu, mon cher Morand, je me meurs? I doubt Voltaire would say "I am gone" unless that is how they talked. Knowing Spanish, I have a feeling meurs means something close to "death".

Adieu, is close to Adios(spanish) they mean "to god". However, being common expressions, I will use the common expresions of our time.

The quote of his last words is probably better translatted as: "Goodbye, my dear Morand, I am dying."
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Old 08-12-2011, 06:23 PM
 
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Thank you. That is a nugget of information I shall add to this Refutation. So long as it is nothing remotely like the evidently false " I am abandoned by God and manI shall go to hell."
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Old 08-12-2011, 08:54 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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I wonder is the 1900's will be known as "the Dark Century" although the dark century would be well into 2010. I hope it will end soon.
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