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Old 08-10-2011, 03:29 AM
 
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[quote=WhipperSnapper 88;20388198]
Quote:


Yes but aren't the protestants a denomination of Catholocism?
In which case Christianity and Islam are denominations of Judaism and Buddhism and Jainism are Denominations of Hinduism. They believe in the same things but differently.

Ps. Also you wrote: "I think your confusing Christianity with Catholicism. There are no Bishops in Christianity, at least none that Ive heard of."

So now if you are talking of protestantism being a denomination of Catholicism perhaps the confusion is yours. I suppose that you are defining 'Christianity' as Jesus believers belonging to churches which do not have bishops. I think you are pulling the fallacy of choosing your parameters to suit your argument. I'll look that one up but I think it's the 'Scotsman' fallacy (1).

Quote:
Ok, that works to! Basicly, I think there should be no predetermination of truth. The Bible should be read as an old timey fairy tail with a "moral of the story is" type of outlook.
That's ok, so long as the moral of the story is not accepted without question, which is all I'd ask of any other book. All I ask is that the content of the Bible is not accepted as True simply because it is in the Bible, or the moralizing given some sort of particular credit because it has been pushed down our throats for two thousand years.

(1) ‘No True Scotsman’ Fallacy
Explanation

The no true scotsman fallacy is a way of reinterpreting evidence in order to prevent the refutation of one’s position. Proposed counter-examples to a theory are dismissed as irrelevant solely because they are counter-examples, but purportedly because they are not what the theory is about.
Example

The No True Scotsman fallacy involves discounting evidence that would refute a proposition, concluding that it hasn’t been falsified when in fact it has.

If Angus, a Glaswegian, who puts sugar on his porridge, is proposed as a counter-example to the claim “No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge”, the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy would run as follows:

(1) Angus puts sugar on his porridge.
(2) No (true) Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.
Therefore:
(3) Angus is not a (true) Scotsman.
Therefore:
(4) Angus is not a counter-example to the claim that no Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.

This fallacy is a form of circular argument, with an existing belief being assumed to be true in order to dismiss any apparent counter-examples to it. The existing belief thus becomes unfalsifiable.
Real-World Examples

An argument similar to this is often arises when people attempt to define religious groups. In some Christian groups, for example, there is an idea that faith is permanent, that once one becomes a Christian one cannot fall away. Apparent counter-examples to this idea, people who appear to have faith but subsequently lose it, are written off using the ‘No True Scotsman’ fallacy: they didn’t really have faith, they weren’t true Christians. The claim that faith cannot be lost is thus preserved from refutation. Given such an approach, this claim is unfalsifiable, there is no possible refutation of it.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/pre...true-scotsman/

(Arq) The whippersnapper example here defines 'Christians' (i.e non - Catholics) as being those without Bishops. If I point out that protestants don't have Bishops, then 'Catholics' are redefined as any Christians having bishops. That is, any Christians having bishops are not 'real' Christians. Of course a case can be made for noncomformist Christians not having bishops - a possibly valid categorization, but then simply calling them 'Christians' is a suspect parameter.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-10-2011 at 04:06 AM.. Reason: moral not oral and the p.s
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Old 08-10-2011, 08:23 AM
 
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Sorry. I ballsed up my example with an omitted word. Correction:

"(Arq) The whippersnapper example here defines 'Christians' (i.e non - Catholics) as being those without Bishops. If I point out that some protestant churches also have Bishops, then 'Catholics' are redefined as any Christians having bishops. That is, any Christians having bishops are not 'real' Christians."
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Old 08-10-2011, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Sorry. I ballsed up my example with an omitted word. Correction:

"(Arq) The whippersnapper example here defines 'Christians' (i.e non - Catholics) as being those without Bishops. If I point out that some protestant churches also have Bishops, then 'Catholics' are redefined as any Christians having bishops. That is, any Christians having bishops are not 'real' Christians."
I stand corrected lol. It'sreally not that important to me, as I am not Christian or Catholic. Christian Bishops isjust something I had never previously heard.
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Old 08-10-2011, 03:14 PM
 
39,031 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I stand corrected lol. It'sreally not that important to me, as I am not Christian or Catholic. Christian Bishops isjust something I had never previously heard.
If you have taken the point on board, then, respect.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:54 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,738,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Ok, that works to! Basicly, I think there should be no predetermination of truth. The Bible should be read as an old timey fairy tail with a "moral of the story is" type of outlook.
What a coincidence! That's how I read the works of Thomas Paine! See, I knew that we had SOMETHING in common!
Hey Weird, because that's how I read them too. I think that is how we all read books...well, most people, and most books, I suppose.
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:58 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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[quote=Woodrow LI;20389086]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post

Well many Protestants think the Pope is the Anti-Christ.

Protestants do not follow the Pope. Have different sacraments and use a different bible. also different sets of church canons, different doctrine and do not recognize many Catholic Saints. Also the worship services differ considerably. Most Protestants do not call their Service Mass, do not Believe the Eucharist is the actual body and Blood of Jesus(swt), do not genuflect when entering a pew, do not make the sign of the Cross with their right hand, do not sprinkle themselves with holy water, Do not follow the catechism, do not pray to Mary, do not use Rosary Beads plus numerous other differences.
They do however, believe in Holy Spirit possessions and speaking in Tongues, horrible occurences if you've ever witnessed one. They also dance and sing around more, and they say things like "Bathe in Jesus' blood"! They also pray for and pretend to heel the people around the congregation. I wonder what the pagans used to do... oh yeah, the exact same things.
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Old 08-11-2011, 07:11 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,958,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post


Yes but aren't the protestants a denomination of Catholicism?
They're arguably an offshoot of Catholicism, or reaction against Catholicism, but Eastern Christianity (Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Assyrian) also generally has bishops. Bishops are mentioned as early as 107 AD and clearly existed before Nicaea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper 88 View Post
I stand corrected lol. It's really not that important to me, as I am not Christian or Catholic. Christian Bishops is just something I had never previously heard.
This is most unusual. You apparently think of Christians as neither Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox. Where are you?
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Old 08-11-2011, 01:08 PM
 
Location: Englewood, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuminousTruth View Post
Hey Weird, because that's how I read them too. I think that is how we all read books...well, most people, and most books, I suppose.
True, though let's hope that doctors don't read "Grey's Anatomy" the way you read the Bible, but rather as I read the Bible -- as truth.
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Old 08-11-2011, 02:40 PM
 
Location: Englewood, FL
1,458 posts, read 1,491,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Corleone View Post
Apparently someone watches a little too much ABC primetime.

I doubt doctors are "reading" a TV series. The textbook you're referring to is "Gray's Anatomy".

Now then; you were on another thread that discussed whether your brang of religion makes people smarter? Point, atheist.
Thanks for correcting my spelling -- I'm terrible. But "brang" is not a word -- do you mean "brand"? Point, Christian.
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Old 08-11-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Ohio
13,900 posts, read 10,781,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
You apparently think of Christians as neither Protestant, Catholic, or Orthodox. Where are you?
Your right, I dont.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiggy View Post
Thanks for correcting my spelling -- I'm terrible. But "brang" is not a word -- do you mean "brand"? Point, Christian.
Oh boy, by my count we are tied up!
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