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Old 08-22-2011, 11:00 PM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,411,555 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
I completely understand your anger and impatience with such religous zealots as it appears your co-worker's sister's family are. But I would respectfully ask you not to lump all Christians into this category. Most of us, even though we may believe in the healing powers of prayer and faith, are still rational enough to know that God bestowed us with fine medical practitioners and technology so that we may make good use of them. I mean, hey, it's all fine and dandy to believe in the resotrative powers of the Lord, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I for the life of me couldn't imagine that Jesus, if he were down here on Earth today, would have any problems with us avaiking ouselves of medical help.
In case you didn't notice, 'fine medical practitioners and technology' are fairly recent. Even the first President of the United States, who lived very recently on the timespan of human civilization, had his death hastened because he was bled to drain away the 'bad humors' in his blood.

The current standard of medicine available in only some countries didn't just happen -- it's the long result of centuries of investigation, trial, and error. And it has been continually hamstrung by various conservative agents, usually religious in nature, who didn't want to accept new ways of doing thing. We might have had blood transfusions a century earlier, and countless saved lives, but for the interference of the church. Even today, the very underpinning of modern medicine (which is to say, the basis of life sciences, evolutionary biology), is under continuous attack from religion. If religious groups had their way, the benefits of stem-cell research would never be realized. The list just goes on and on.

*Disease? That was due to sin, religion informed us.
*Mental illness? Demons, so said religion.
*Michael Servetus, ever hear of him? He was the first European to correctly describe the purpose of pulmonary circulation. And he was burnt at the state as a heretic by Calvinists in 1553. One can only wonder what else he might have contributed had he not been slaughtered in the name of God.
*The study of anatomy through dissection was opposed and prevented by the church for centuries.

I could go on and on - the list of knowledge opposed and prevented in the name of religion is all but endless. On the contrary, religion has been one obstacle after another when it comes to medicine.

What we do have is the result of hard, investigative work throughout the ages, not some bestowment by the Fairy in the Sky.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,599,318 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by moddestmike View Post
Case and point, a coworker of mine recently informed me that her sister suffered a severe heart attack resulting in a comatose state. This went on for two weeks, the physician informing the family that the victim is now in a vegetative state and will not recover (brain activity is at a Lvl. 3, in order to have any quality of life one needs to be at a Lvl. 15.). She refutes the doctors claim, stating "we believe in the power of Jesus, his diagnosis has not yet been given". Another week passes and the victim does not recover, eventually submitting to the injuries and passing away. Now my coworker states that she did not have strong enough faith, "we did not pray vigorously enough, god was not pleased with our worship". Immediately I was taken back to the days of Ancient Mayans worshiping "Gods" of the unknown, citing poor praise performance as the reason for natural disasters, etc.....Its this type of fanaticism that makes me question if we as Atheist really should be as tolerant as we are of the "faithful" (for those questioning, its proven that non-believers have remained THE single most tolerant group of individuals based on history). Now I have no plans to insight violence as the answer, but more so making it commonplace to criticize and question the claims made by them...after all the burden of proof is on those making the fantastically delusional claims.
Were these people Christian Scientists? Jehovah's Witnesses?
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:39 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,599,318 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by OreeeGone View Post
Dang. Can you believe he sent those atheist medical practitioners down here to help you, then rewards them with hell?
Do the atheist medical practitoners (doctors) really expect to see heaven by works and not faith? Or is that a stupid question?

And why are they talking about God as if they (secretly) believed?
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,599,318 times
Reputation: 842
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
In case you didn't notice, 'fine medical practitioners and technology' are fairly recent. Even the first President of the United States, who lived very recently on the timespan of human civilization, had his death hastened because he was bled to drain away the 'bad humors' in his blood.

The current standard of medicine available in only some countries didn't just happen -- it's the long result of centuries of investigation, trial, and error. And it has been continually hamstrung by various conservative agents, usually religious in nature, who didn't want to accept new ways of doing thing. We might have had blood transfusions a century earlier, and countless saved lives, but for the interference of the church. Even today, the very underpinning of modern medicine (which is to say, the basis of life sciences, evolutionary biology), is under continuous attack from religion. If religious groups had their way, the benefits of stem-cell research would never be realized. The list just goes on and on.

*Disease? That was due to sin, religion informed us.
*Mental illness? Demons, so said religion.
*Michael Servetus, ever hear of him? He was the first European to correctly describe the purpose of pulmonary circulation. And he was burnt at the state as a heretic by Calvinists in 1553. One can only wonder what else he might have contributed had he not been slaughtered in the name of God.
*The study of anatomy through dissection was opposed and prevented by the church for centuries.

I could go on and on - the list of knowledge opposed and prevented in the name of religion is all but endless. On the contrary, religion has been one obstacle after another when it comes to medicine.

What we do have is the result of hard, investigative work throughout the ages, not some bestowment by the Fairy in the Sky.
You're a good atheist. You hit all the notes just right.
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Old 08-23-2011, 07:46 AM
 
39,152 posts, read 10,865,034 times
Reputation: 5090
And you're apparently a good Blind - faith Theist, since you appear to ignore every point he made.
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Old 08-24-2011, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,986,990 times
Reputation: 5074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
Do the atheist medical practitoners (doctors) really expect to see heaven by works and not faith? Or is that a stupid question?
It's a stupid question, since atheists don't really expect to see heaven at all.
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Old 08-24-2011, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 2,599,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
It's a stupid question, since atheists don't really expect to see heaven at all.
The why worry about being sent to hell?
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Old 08-24-2011, 09:11 AM
 
39,152 posts, read 10,865,034 times
Reputation: 5090
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
The why worry about being sent to hell?

Why indeed? That's why the 'are you worried about Hell' poll was about sixty nil.
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:54 PM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,907,645 times
Reputation: 15895
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
The why worry about being sent to hell?
We don't!
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Old 08-25-2011, 01:28 AM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,986,990 times
Reputation: 5074
Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
The why worry about being sent to hell?
Indeed...What makes you think I am worried?

Besides that, as General Sheridan said, "If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd live in Hell and rent out Texas".
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