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Old 08-20-2011, 11:22 PM
 
Location: Dallas
1,004 posts, read 521,848 times
Reputation: 1226

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Case and point, a coworker of mine recently informed me that her sister suffered a severe heart attack resulting in a comatose state. This went on for two weeks, the physician informing the family that the victim is now in a vegetative state and will not recover (brain activity is at a Lvl. 3, in order to have any quality of life one needs to be at a Lvl. 15.). She refutes the doctors claim, stating "we believe in the power of Jesus, his diagnosis has not yet been given". Another week passes and the victim does not recover, eventually submitting to the injuries and passing away. Now my coworker states that she did not have strong enough faith, "we did not pray vigorously enough, god was not pleased with our worship". Immediately I was taken back to the days of Ancient Mayans worshiping "Gods" of the unknown, citing poor praise performance as the reason for natural disasters, etc.....Its this type of fanaticism that makes me question if we as Atheist really should be as tolerant as we are of the "faithful" (for those questioning, its proven that non-believers have remained THE single most tolerant group of individuals based on history). Now I have no plans to insight violence as the answer, but more so making it commonplace to criticize and question the claims made by them...after all the burden of proof is on those making the fantastically delusional claims.
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Old 08-21-2011, 12:10 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,737,886 times
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You can't remind people of death, or else they become more fanatical. If more atheists come out to speak their mind, then Christians will blame their woes on Atheists instead on their little faith and will seek to oppress and kill you... likely moving on fast against all non-Christian theists. The drive to not have atheists tell you that you wont live forever is too great for them to bear, the vast majority of Christians being uneducated lay-people.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:10 AM
 
39,026 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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There is always the risk of strident and even violent reaction, but the truth is important. We all have the choice - to say what needs to be said or to allowed ourselves to be intimidated into silence.
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Old 08-21-2011, 08:39 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
Reputation: 2610
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
We all have the choice - to say what needs to be said or to allowed ourselves to be intimidated into silence.
Hear, hear old boy!! Whenever you want to start the revolution, give me a call.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:01 AM
 
39,026 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Hear, hear old boy!! Whenever you want to start the revolution, give me a call.
For me it started as soon as I logged on to Atheist Network and is still going on. Dawkins and Hawkings and others have been helping with a few hefty air strikes but it's people like you and I brother Raffs with our pickups and LMG who are gradually pushing back the hefty armour of the well funded theist regime.

Hail to Darwin! Dawkins is his prophet. Pass the ammunition.
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:28 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,274,304 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
For me it started as soon as I logged on to Atheist Network and is still going on. Dawkins and Hawkings and others have been helping with a few hefty air strikes but it's people like you and I brother Raffs with our pickups and LMG who are gradually pushing back the hefty armour of the well funded theist regime.

Hail to Darwin! Dawkins is his prophet. Pass the ammunition.
I knew you guys had a violent streak

Sorry but Us Muslims do not accept blind faith. We accept life as a test and all things good and bad are for our benefit. We enjoy the good but we learn much from the bad. We have missed much if we do not learn from each thing that happens to us. Life does not always give us what we want, but we can find a need for all things. We learn the most from the bad events of life.

We need not overly seek pleasure in life, a life dedicated to a life of ease, comfort and without trial, leads to stagnation.

As Ambrose Bierce wrote : "DEBAUCHEE, n. One who has so earnestly pursued pleasure that he has had the misfortune to overtake it."
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Old 08-21-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Austin, Texas
2,756 posts, read 5,406,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moddestmike View Post
Case and point, a coworker of mine recently informed me that her sister suffered a severe heart attack resulting in a comatose state. This went on for two weeks, the physician informing the family that the victim is now in a vegetative state and will not recover (brain activity is at a Lvl. 3, in order to have any quality of life one needs to be at a Lvl. 15.). She refutes the doctors claim, stating "we believe in the power of Jesus, his diagnosis has not yet been given". Another week passes and the victim does not recover, eventually submitting to the injuries and passing away. Now my coworker states that she did not have strong enough faith, "we did not pray vigorously enough, god was not pleased with our worship". Immediately I was taken back to the days of Ancient Mayans worshiping "Gods" of the unknown, citing poor praise performance as the reason for natural disasters, etc.....Its this type of fanaticism that makes me question if we as Atheist really should be as tolerant as we are of the "faithful" (for those questioning, its proven that non-believers have remained THE single most tolerant group of individuals based on history). Now I have no plans to insight violence as the answer, but more so making it commonplace to criticize and question the claims made by them...after all the burden of proof is on those making the fantastically delusional claims.

I completely understand your anger and impatience with such religous zealots as it appears your co-worker's sister's family are. But I would respectfully ask you not to lump all Christians into this category. Most of us, even though we may believe in the healing powers of prayer and faith, are still rational enough to know that God bestowed us with fine medical practitioners and technology so that we may make good use of them. I mean, hey, it's all fine and dandy to believe in the resotrative powers of the Lord, but let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater. I for the life of me couldn't imagine that Jesus, if he were down here on Earth today, would have any problems with us avaiking ouselves of medical help.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
15,310 posts, read 10,333,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrummerBoy View Post
Most of us, even though we may believe in the healing powers of prayer and faith, are still rational enough to know that God bestowed us with fine medical practitioners and technology so that we may make good use of them.
So you don't trust your omnimax deity huh?
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:56 AM
 
39,026 posts, read 10,819,276 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
I knew you guys had a violent streak
At the risk of off topic, it was my small tribute to the incredible courage of the Libyan civilian army. As for war, while I am very interested in military history, the study of it has taught me that, while it may at times be fascinating and even glorious, it is not a thing to be loved or sought. As Pte. Baldrick wrote in his war poem
"Hear the song I sing.
War's a horrid thing.
So I sing, sing, sing.
Ding-a-ling -a-ling
.' (1)

Quote:
Sorry but Us Muslims do not accept blind faith. We accept life as a test and all things good and bad are for our benefit. We enjoy the good but we learn much from the bad. We have missed much if we do not learn from each thing that happens to us. Life does not always give us what we want, but we can find a need for all things. We learn the most from the bad events of life.

We need not overly seek pleasure in life, a life dedicated to a life of ease, comfort and without trial, leads to stagnation.

As Ambrose Bierce wrote : "DEBAUCHEE, n. One who has so earnestly pursued pleasure that he has had the misfortune to overtake it."
Then you and I live pretty much the same way. Except that I manage to do it without having to refer a Holy Book.

(1) a theist colleague explained that the apparently foolish last line is in fact a reference to the frantic ringing of an alarm bell to warn of a counter - attack on the trenches. I never knew that and neither, so I am assured, did the person who wrote the poem.
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Old 08-22-2011, 02:58 PM
 
7,802 posts, read 5,278,109 times
Reputation: 2973
Quote:
Originally Posted by moddestmike View Post
Now my coworker states that she did not have strong enough faith, "we did not pray vigorously enough, god was not pleased with our worship".
This is so typical of religious thinking.

Had the patient recovered it would be evidence prayer works, there is a god, and "he" is great.

When the patient does not recover this is evidence prayer works, god just decided not to listen this time, there is a god and "he" is great.

When any result of an experiment at all can be used to prove the one conclusion.... when an experiments success or failure are equally considered evidence of the desired conclusion.... then what you have is a farce and a canard.

If we thought like that then anything could literally be evidence of anything. Theists operating in such a fashion have given up even the mere pretence of being rational or reasonable. They have decided the conclusion and they will interpret any result of any experiment as being support of it. No matter what little back flips, lies, tricks or just plain covering their eyes and ears they need to do to get there.
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