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Old 09-16-2011, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
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If God was really going to do somebody in a foxhole any good......................

Then why do they need a foxhole in the first place.
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Old 09-16-2011, 04:40 PM
 
1 posts, read 990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Well, when I die, will be no more "me" to miss or not miss someone, if that makes any sense.
Sounds like basically what he was saying.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:15 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,740,053 times
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I think many of us struggle with the finality of death. I just feel so utterly sad sometimes when I dwell on the fact I will never see my beloved children after I die. As much as we want to make the most of our days on earth we don't always manage to. In so many ways the thought of an everlasting life (without the endlessly boring hymns and bowing and scraping and paying homage to god), just satisfies our longing to be with the people with love and care for.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Albuquerque NM
3,205 posts, read 4,855,618 times
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Here's my take:

1) There are no atheists in foxholes. The number is very small, just as in the general population

2) Atheists are just angry with God. Some I've met seem to have given up on religion because they felt cheated by God.

3) Atheists are aggressive and rude. Reading in this forum I can see how this would be easy to believe

4) Atheism is a white dude thing. If not, why are all the New Atheist spokespeople white males, like Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens? Of course there was the great patroness of American atheism and founder of American Atheists, and its president for 30 years, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who stole from her organization and was hacked to bits by one of her atheist employees (no aggression issues there)

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other. Some atheists do nourish their own faith-based ideas (see axemanjoe above)

6) Atheists donít have a moral code. They have individual codes, but since there is no agreement among them they don't have a collective code. Madalyn Murray O'Hair's code apparently included robbing people blind

7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning. I wouldn't know

8) Atheists are hedonists who donít understand the true meaning of love. Probably no more than religious people

9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife. "Death is the end" apparently makes them happy

10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas. That's funny
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Old 10-05-2011, 08:04 PM
 
Location: Cookevegas
18 posts, read 26,964 times
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1) There are no atheists in foxholes. There may not be many, but I know of a few "Jedi" that are ( its on their dogtags)

2) Atheists are just angry with God. I'm not angry with "God" nor am I only concerned about scientific proof of his existence. The thought seems illogical to me. I don't care what trespass someone committed against me, I could in no way torture them in a special made dungeon for all eternity. I would eventually find no reason for it. Nor do I ever think I could make such dungeon for something I loved "Just in case..." But I won't go to far into this section. ( I could take up pages, I assure you)

3) Atheists are aggressive and rude. That would be like saying "Women are stupid" I have met stupid women and men, but I can in no way say that all of them fall under that classification. Some people are rude, some aren't... I don't really think its a side effect of a belief

4) Atheism is a white dude thing. Yes, its a "thing" that appeals only to those with fair pigment and less melanin in their skin. Really? Come on...

5) Atheism is just a faith like any other. Not so much... Atheism is more a rejection of the faith, a lack thereof. Much like an unburning log is without fire, not just "another form of fire"

6) Atheists donít have a moral code. I, in fact, do... and I adhere to it. I don't have the "All forgiving father" to say "its ok you did that, you're forgiven". No, what I do and say weighs on me. It is a burden upon me and I try to avoid it overall. Its easy to let your moral code slip when you can get a forgiveness pass from upstairs... the only forgiveness I would expect if I err would be from the person I have done wrong.

7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning. Actually, its quite filled with both. Atheists explore the world as we know it. We leave no stone unturned. By knowing that I will die in time and that will be the end of me, I try to cherish time with those I know for I won't always be here. I never leave a loved one, even in an argument, without saying "I love you"... because if I were to die before I could see them again, I wouldn't want there last memory of me to be one that hated them, nor would I want to know our last moment was one of hate. I'd say my life is far from bleak, and I'll make the meaning of it whatever I wish it to be.

8) Atheists are hedonists who donít understand the true meaning of love.
The "True Meaning of Love" is kinda subjective if you ask me...To think that all love in our eyes is hedonistic is pretty lame. I love my Dad, and my nieces and nephews more than I could explain in words. It is not in a hedonistic way. I love the girl I'm currently with, and our "hedonistic" ways here of late have been like that of a nun.

9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife. My grandma passed a few months ago. She was stricken with Alzheimers and Dementia... When she finally passed I wasn't upset, nor was I having to cope with anything. I was happen she no longer suffered. That her regrets, pain, suffering and sorrow nothing more than a void now. I don't understand the fear of death. Did you fear your lack of existence before you were born? No , there was only void... which is peaceful to me. I'll not be upset or sorry, I will cease to be. There will be no "me" but in memory.

10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas. No, the idiots that want to sue Santa for saying "Ho ho ho" because its offensive are...

Alright, sorry for saying so much... but I drank a lot of Dunkin Donuts coffee and now I can't sleep. So I rant...heh
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:22 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 10,880,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Actually, that is the one thing I sometimes struggle with. I grew up Catholic, and it used to provide a lot of comfort to me to feel that I would see my loved ones again in "the afterlife." I also took an "all dogs go to heaven" kind of approach. Yes, not even the Catholic Church talks about animals having souls--it was more of a belief that in the peace of my death, the love and spirit of all who were in my life would surround me, including pets.

Well, one of my beloved birdies passed away last week, and quite a few well-meaning friends and family members said things like "You'll see him again someday."

That dredged up all of those thoughts again. I'd really love to believe that. I want to believe that, like I want to believe that I'll see my parents again. But I just don't.

That's really the only thing I'm still learning to handle, several years after coming to my conclusion that there is no deity and that when you get right down to it, we're all just biology. "Intelligent" biology, sentient biology, but biology nonetheless.
I think I might slip the 'atheist afterlife' in here. But I have to admit that it isn't warm and fuzzy like assurances that you will see relatives and pets again (though theism has some reservations about that, sometimes) since the evidence for an afterlife isn't very compelling, but, if there is an afterlife, then we all get it, irrespective or race, creed, or even what we did while on earth. Nobody is dishing out entry tickets paid for by religious attendance credits.

It follows that, if there is such an afterlife, then there is no logical reason why we'd get it and animals wouldn't.

So atheism can't offer assurances that there is an afterlife - we have to be agnostic about that but, one thing I can promise you, if there is one you can bet all your friends, relatives and pets will be there too and any religion -peddler who tells you different on some theological basis is talking balls.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:34 AM
 
Location: Texas
43,564 posts, read 52,720,164 times
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I am not a christian (and as far as I'm concerned, christianity and islam can go take a flying leap), but I agree with the point that it takes just as much blind faith to say there is absolutely no god as it does to claim there absolutely is one.

The agnostics are the only ones (in my book) that can get away with saying they are purely logical.
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Old 10-06-2011, 03:47 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 10,880,280 times
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[quote=aries63;20914197]Here's my take:

1) There are no atheists in foxholes.
Quote:
The number is very small, just as in the general population.
This is not the point. The point is do they stay unbelievers under fire? The argument is that they pray to God in terror. Like the accusations about deathbed conversion, this seems to be largely a theist lie.

2) Atheists are just angry with God.
Quote:
Some I've met seem to have given up on religion because they felt cheated by God.
No. They don't believe in God. So you point is as nonsensical as being angry at a thing they don't believe is there. What they do feel angry at is the Big Lie of Theism and cheated by the massive con -trick of theism. we are miffed about that, shore'nuff.

3) Atheists are aggressive and rude.
Quote:
Reading in this forum I can see how this would be easy to believe.
It might even be true. If so it could be for a number of reasons. Over enthusiasm, anger at the theist deception, dismay at the idiocy it spreads into every walk of life and disgust as the constant lies told about atheism. I do hope you will stop repeating a few of them.

4) Atheism is a white dude thing. I
Quote:
f not, why are all the New Atheist spokespeople white males, like Harris, Dawkins, and Hitchens? Of course there was the great patroness of American atheism and founder of American Atheists, and its president for 30 years, Madalyn Murray O'Hair, who stole from her organization and was hacked to bits by one of her atheist employees (no aggression issues there)
I checked that up and it seems that the guy Waters worked for the organization - which isn't to say that made him an atheist - unlike the creationist museum you don't have to be a card - carrying believer to have a job there. O'Hair apparently exposed Waters (unlike some theisms I could name who cover up the crimes of people in their employ) and it was he who did the theft and extortion, not her.

Now I am open to other takes on it but it looks like your story was unfair not to mention hostile and dishonest.

As to black Dudes, like women, we would love to have them join us - the more the merrier. If there is some reason they don't feel comfortable with atheist meet ups I do hope they will say so and we can try to address the issue. I don't even mind if there are black and female majority atheist meets if it makes them feel more comfy.



5) Atheism is just a faith like any other.
Quote:
Some atheists do nourish their own faith-based ideas (see axemanjoe above)
Couldn't see that. Would you care to post and substantiate rather than toss in unsupported accusations?

6) Atheists don’t have a moral code.
Quote:
They have individual codes, but since there is no agreement among them they don't have a collective code. Madalyn Murray O'Hair's code apparently included robbing people blind.
Neither does theism have agreement. They only fool themselves that they do. Rationalist and relative morality knows that it is flexible and variable and that's a point in its favour against a code which is both variously interpreted while held to be unmovable. And I repeat that your accusation of O' Hair seems to be misplaced or overdrawn. At least.

7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning.
Quote:
I wouldn't know.
I would. They are not. I now also know that you are not yourself an atheist. I'd never have guessed.

8) Atheists are hedonists who don’t understand the true meaning of love.
Quote:
Probably no more than religious people.
I agree here. Some may understand it a bit better and some theists may delude themselves about its 'true' meaning. But by and large, we all deal with it the same way.

9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife.
Quote:
"Death is the end" apparently makes them happy.
There's no use in crying for the moon, but I offer the 'atheist afterlife'. If there is one, we all get it. Pets, too.

10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas.
Quote:
That's funny.
Actually this is one where I do see some attacks on Christmas. I'm ..I have to admit that I'm not sure where I stand on this. I guess I'd say it's ok for the kids to believe, up to age of six. After that it's as good a time as any for a get together and a party. (1)

I do respectfully trust that 'your take' has been modified by having a few of these misconceptions of yours corrected.

(1) sorry - I have developed a rare Footnote disease. One fellow worker asked me why, as an atheist, I was celebrating Christmas. I of course said that I didn't. He then said 'Well you take the hodiday, don't you?'. My reply was 'if the office gave you four days off for Muhammad's birthday, would you take the time of or sit outside the office gates with a sign 'I am not a muslim'?' The reply for the record was a sour grunt and walk - away.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-06-2011 at 03:59 AM..
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:03 AM
 
39,202 posts, read 10,880,280 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I am not a christian (and as far as I'm concerned, christianity and islam can go take a flying leap), but I agree with the point that it takes just as much blind faith to say there is absolutely no god as it does to claim there absolutely is one.
It does. That is why atheism doesn't say it. It just says that it is logically the case for god - belief that it has to be made credible, and so far it has failed to do so for any kind of 'god' and has lamentably failed to do so for any of the personal gods of the man - made religions. To not believe in any such god takes no 'faith' at all. Except in the validity of the corpus of scientifically - validated data, of course, but then we all do that, every day, except where religion or whacky cults cuts across it, so it appears.

Quote:
The agnostics are the only ones (in my book) that can get away with saying they are purely logical.
Only if they do not believe in what they do not know. If they believe in what they do not know, they are being utterly illogical.

When oh when are we ever going to able to put this basic and universal misconception about atheism to bed?

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 10-06-2011 at 05:10 AM..
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Old 10-06-2011, 04:11 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,297,298 times
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Good thread.

While I disagree with atheism, I do want to keep my disagreements factual and not based on common misconceptions.

Thanks for the reminder, I see some areas I have slipped over and criticized misconception and not fact.
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