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Old 10-07-2011, 05:59 AM
 
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See point "2" in my list above so. It always comes down to one of the 6. Every Time.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Kenmore, WA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Here's one excerpt in relation to believers making the ridiculous claim that "atheism is just another kind of faith":..."itís time to take a step back and rethink your attitudes."
Dear Insane,

As I read your post I wondered: "Just whose attitude needs to be re-thought, in this case?" I don't have a problem with your atheism, and I agree that persons of faith tend to misapply their faith to the material world, rather than the spiritual world that their religion calls them to apply it, but really -- why do you need to be so militant?

Just as those that are militant about their faith indicate that their beliefs are not thought out, the same is true for those that do not have faith. Once one considers the big picture for oneself, and chooses one's beliefs, there is comfort with the choice, and others beliefs are no threat. There's no need to taunt anyone. Just go in peace, and accept that not everyone is going to believe what you believe.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by stan4 View Post
I wasn't trying to prove a point using anecdotes. I was saying that until this very moment, no atheist has explained their process of thinking as nicely and precisely as y'all have.

I have heard, "There is no god." "It's just stupid." "Something only mindless moronic sheep would believe." Etc.

I dunno. Maybe they feel defensive or are sick of talking about it.

When put in terms as y'all have put, it makes more sense. But I think if you were wondering why you face hostility and/or judgment, it's because so many atheists are NOT voicing their reasonable thought processes (and I am willing to bet some of them aren't even using that logic).

I myself prefer atheists to most religious folks. I have never really understood why anyone else cares what you believe or don't believe.

All religions are obviously man-made.
I do see your point. The thing is, imagine yourself living in a society where everyone believed in Father Christmas (all other things being equal) and all your arguments as to why it was daft to believe in Father Christmas were met with the sort of objections atheists get when they say it's daft to believe in God.

The temptation to regard a national father christmas cult as deluded might be met with the usual arguments about 'science doesn't know everything', 'have you looked everywhere in the universe?', Santa in invisible can be everywhere at once and is the force behind present - giving and if only you stopped denying santa and believed, then you'd see that it all makes sense. And why are you trying to break up the feelings of happiness and togetherness Santa brings children and families? There is something evil and nasty about these a- santa -ists.

Well, you'd think you were surrounded by idiots.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nozzferrahhtoo View Post
See point "2" in my list above so. It always comes down to one of the 6. Every Time.
Not a cop out. Simple fact. I am not going to try to convince anybody God(swt) exists. I spent too many years trying that route, and it was only after I became agnostic and realized all of my concepts of God(swt) came from the teachings of Humans, I learned I was not believing in God(swt).

It was after I cast aside my old beliefs, that I found reasons to believe God(swt) exists. I never really would have believed in God(swt) while I was believing what people were telling me. Back then I thought I believed in God(swt), but I was having blind faith in what "Church Leaders" told me. I had to find God(swt) myself.

I believe an Atheist or Agnostic has a better chance of finding proof of God(swt)'s existence than many robotic Church Goers.

The only thing I try to tell people is to always have an open mind, search all things and verify all answers. That is my concept of proving God(swt) exists. People have to find proof, on their own.


Once a person has come to the conclusion God(swt) exists, than I would tell them why Islam is the true way to follow Him. If he is willing to listen.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:26 AM
 
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Default The Truth

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Crabcakes View Post
Interesting.

1) There are no atheists in foxholes. No point. I can't imaging running to religion for any reason.
2) Atheists are just angry with God. How can I be angry at something that does not exist?
3) Atheists are aggressive and rude. Never. I have no desire in making non-believers look bad and no one would know unless asked.
4) Atheism is a white dude thing. Black chick, here!
5) Atheism is just a faith like any other. How can it be a faith when there is no belief system?
6) Atheists don’t have a moral code. Morals exist without religion. They did not invent them.
7) Atheist lives are bleak and lack meaning. Yeah right! Based on what? Life is just as fulfilling, if not more! I can live exactly how I chose and not feel guilty about it.
8) Atheists are hedonists who don’t understand the true meaning of love. Total bunk.
9) Atheists have no way to cope after losing loved ones without the belief in an afterlife. More bunk. Again, you don't need religion to learn coping methods. I actually am more conforted in knowing that when my loved ones die, it is the end, instead of worrying about their position in an afterlife. For me, it creates a greater appreciation of them while alive.
10) Atheists are out to destroy Christmas. Good one? I love Xmas!! Not the birth of Jesus story but the regular commercial holiday. Gifts, food, family, friends, music, decorations? All great fun. Still my favorite holiday!

And even more enjoyable without having to go to church. Yay!!!
Shalom Black Chick...do you believe that there is no G-d?
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:31 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
Nothing earth shattering and probably an area were all we can do is agree to disagree in Peace. It was a rather long list when I had a lot of misconceptions about atheist. But, having read your posts and the posts of others, I believe I have shed the misconceptions, so at the moment I believe the only factual disagreement is the difference in our views of the existence of God(swt), I say he does, you say he doesn't.

All I can do is tell you the reason's I believe in God(swt) and you in turn will tell me why they are meaningless to you. No need in going into a long heated debate over something that will have no conclusion.
Yes, I can see the conversation going that way. In the end, perhaps, a better understanding of atheists and what they think and say and reason and act and sing and dance and a respectful agreement to differ in religious worldview is as much as we godless bastards can ask for. Mind, we still feel obliged to make, state and publicize our case. If there is a New Atheism, it is an evangelical aspect.

Quote:
Two misconceptions were:

I believed all Atheists were so by choice, they simply did not want to believe in God(swt), because doing so would disrupt their lives.

I also used to believe that most atheists were egotistical and considered themselves too intelligent to believe in God(swt)
In fact they are not too far off. There are lifetime and deconverted atheists.

Deconverts very often find disbelief forced on them (often reluctantly) by trying to prove the factual basis to themselves or others and finding that it really isn't there.

The lifetimers very often simply are not interested. They don't see a god and see religion as man - made mumbo -jumbo. Others (like me) have looked at the claims and found (like the deconverts) that they really are not very sound.

There is perhaps a factor of not wanting to believe in a god or religion, particularly and the restrictions imposed do not appeal, and I have to be aware that wanting to lead a 'sinful' life has its appeal. Doing things because they make sense rather than because a religion says so appeals to me greatly.

As to intelligent. There is an element of that, too. In fact I know very well that many theist are highly intelligent and educated. What i do feel is that theist belief requires a rejection or partial rejection of the basic mental tools used by intelligent and educated people. This often leads to theists looking less intelligent that they really are and perhaps atheists looking smarter that they really are.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:32 AM
 
Location: southern california
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read your list, you are indeed religious, but it has a different name, its old name is mammon
the new name is materialism/consumerism, the mall is the temple.
your phylacteries are mastercard and visa. this religion does not discriminate and has
great diversity. its favorite color was gold but the new color is green $$$.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LookinForMayberry View Post
Dear Insane,

As I read your post I wondered: "Just whose attitude needs to be re-thought, in this case?" I don't have a problem with your atheism, and I agree that persons of faith tend to misapply their faith to the material world, rather than the spiritual world that their religion calls them to apply it, but really -- why do you need to be so militant?
I wasn't aware he was calling for the violent destruction of his opposition, but maybe I missed something. Or maybe you're using the wrong word here.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:44 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodrow LI View Post
To Highlight a point you made.



Excellent point, an error I believe most of us theists have made. Quite simply most of us have never had our beliefs challanged until we come in contact with atheists. Our beliefs become to us self evident truths and until our beliefs have been challenged several times, we have no real concept that a person could believe different. We can not fathom the idea that a person could not believe. We forget that it is our responsibility to prove God(swt) exists, it is not up to the atheist to prove He does not exist so we counter with "Prove there is no God(swt)." After that we end up reacting out of emotion and any meaningful, constructive debate becomes an impossibility.

Wow. That's searing honesty! Yes, logically, that is absolutely the case. It seems to me that the basis of religious belief is Faith (which you'd think was obvious) and that is all that we need ask to be recognized. The arguments about proving gods are all based on trying to find supportive evidence in history, scripture (prophecy is favourite followed by advanced science knowledge) and the various personal feelings and experiences.

Mix them up with a bit of faith and (regrettably) a bit of false reasoning, misrepresentation of science and some semantic fiddling and what seems like a factually sound basis for the faith can be constructed.

Showing that this edifice is really not that sound (according to the usual norms of science method, logic and reason) is what the majority of the quarrels are about.

We could ([perhaps we should) be more tolerant of faiths - even enjoy them and their art and spectacle and history and festivals - were it not that science is made to look like a dog's dinner and logic is turned on its head.
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Old 10-07-2011, 06:55 AM
 
Location: Logan Township, Minnesota
15,511 posts, read 13,299,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
As to intelligent. There is an element of that, too. In fact I know very well that many theist are highly intelligent and educated. What i do feel is that theist belief requires a rejection or partial rejection of the basic mental tools used by intelligent and educated people. This often leads to theists looking less intelligent that they really are and perhaps atheists looking smarter that they really are.
You may agree that Mendel had above average intelligence and he was a Catholic Monk. (Just think of how brilliant he would have been as a Muslim)

Being a theist does not require a rejection of mental tools, but I will agree that many religions do require that and do forbid or stifle learning.

Even us Muslims see that among our selves when we have misguided people who set them selves up as being religious leaders. That is one logical reason we forbid any ordained clergy and are not to blindly follow any Human Religious Leader. We are to know all living Humans can and will make errors, it is our responsibility to verify all things and scrutinize every source.
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