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Old 09-28-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Earth
1,113 posts, read 1,884,929 times
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Maybe they could let them hang one of their Amish quilts on the back of those buggys.
http://galenfrysinger.org/quilts/IMG_5922.jpg (broken link)
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Old 09-28-2011, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
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Say what you will, that is a gorgeous quilt. I bet if you get up close the stitches are very even and really tiny. It's got great color and contrast and drama. I like it!

I suppose it is OK for a bed to be covered in a flashy quilt, but it's not OK for a buggy to have an orange safety triangle. Hmm. Now... what about the color of that guy's shirt? Does Miami Vice turquoise really qualify as "modest"?
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Old 09-28-2011, 11:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quiettimect View Post
I think it is best not to push the safety triangle issue any further. The next thing you know the Amish will demand to be exempt from social security taxes. One must always consider the consequences
I am assuming you know they are exempt from social security taxes.

The Amish & Social Security

Quote:
in 1965, the Medicare bill was passed by Congress. As Wayne Fisher writes in The Amish in Court, "Tucked into the 138 page bill was a clause exempting the Old Order Amish, and any other religious sect who conscientiously objected to insurance, from paying Social Security payments, providing that sect had been in existence since December 31, 1950. After Senate approval in July, the signing of the bill by President Lyndon B. Johnson on August 13, 1965, made it official and canceled tax accounts of some 15,000 Amish people amounting to nearly $250,000."
Amish FAQ (http://www.holycrosslivonia.org/amish/amishfaq.htm#medic - broken link)

Quote:
Is it true the Amish are exempt from Medicare and Medicaid withholding? What legal basis is used for this?

Medicare and Medicaid are a part of the Social Security system. Old Order Amish believe that if the church is faithful to its calling, many government programs and commercial insurance are not needed. That conviction forced them to testify before Congress because they did not want to receive Social Security benefits. What they wanted instead was the right to look after their own elderly. They were finally given approval, if self-employed, to be exempt from paying the tax. Seldom do Old Order Amish individuals accept Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:09 AM
 
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It is doubtful if that quilt would be allowed in the particular Amish order that would not put the triangles on their vehicles. I can't say for sure that this is the case, but it seems to me that you may be confusing quilts from different orders of Amish in this case.

The Old Order Swartzentruber Amish are among the plainest of the Amish. Colors used in their quilts are regulated by the bishops of the community.
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Old 09-30-2011, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Florida
416 posts, read 553,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Or wear seat belts or helmets.

This is based on my libertarian beliefs, and I don't like the big daddy government forcing people to be safe.

This is supposed to be the "land of the free," and yet the government is constantly trying to make us so safe that we are hardly free at all. It should be MY decision whether I want to wear a safety belt, and it should be the Amish decision on whether they want to wear the orange vest....

... unless it is a direct hazard to others, in which case I believe the laws would be acceptable.
Erm, a body often becomes a projectile if not properly secured in a vehicle when the vehicle suddenly comes to a stop, making said body a direct hazard to others in the path of it's trajectory.
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Old 10-01-2011, 07:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I don't think the Amish, or anyone else, should be forced to wear orange safety vest.

Or wear seat belts or helmets.

This is based on my libertarian beliefs, and I don't like the big daddy government forcing people to be safe.

This is supposed to be the "land of the free," and yet the government is constantly trying to make us so safe that we are hardly free at all. It should be MY decision whether I want to wear a safety belt, and it should be the Amish decision on whether they want to wear the orange vest....

... unless it is a direct hazard to others, in which case I believe the laws would be acceptable.
It's not an issue of forcing them to be safe, though that certainly is a nice side benefit. It's an issue of forcing them to be visible so other users of the road can see them and avoid them.

How about headlights? Do you have a problem with laws requiring them to be on after dark? Or turn signals? Does libertarianism mean you sneer at laws requiring use of headlights after sunset, or turn signals when turning?

How hard is it to understand that when you use the public roads, undertaking actions in which the public is at some risk due to your presence, that legal requirements exist for certain modest precautions -- such as orange triangles, headlights, turn signals, etc. -- to be used?
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:09 AM
 
16,300 posts, read 24,990,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
Or wear seat belts or helmets.

This is based on my libertarian beliefs, and I don't like the big daddy government forcing people to be safe.
Well how about just not being a danger to others? If you didn't see the black buggy (sans satanic triangle) until you were right on it and swerved, ran off into field, rolled over, and were ejected and killed because you weren't wearing a seat belt?
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Old 10-02-2011, 02:30 AM
 
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Poor Ol' Boxcar. I know just what he means of course. There is a sort of resentment of control and surveillance.

If we suppose that we have a relative concensus morality to live by, then we should live by it and not take the view that it doesn't apply to us, just other people. It's the old 'Property is robbery' until someone pinches your property. Then we don't hear so much about redistribution of wealth.

Rules and regulations are annoying whey you can't find a space without double yellow lines - until someone without a permit hogs your parking space and then 'They' should come galloping and haul the bastard away for crushing - the car that is .

It's not just that people need to respect the rules and also be told them since few people trouble read the bye laws and where they irritably want to opt out we can be tolerant in their own home - within reason. But where it affects the wider community, they should give it a bit of respect.
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Old 10-03-2011, 12:50 PM
 
Location: In the Pearl of the Purchase, Ky
7,446 posts, read 12,972,198 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Theophane View Post
The orangle safety triangles ruined the plainness of the otherwise all-black carriages. See, Amish folk value being plain like hipsters value being non-mainstream.
I have lived near 4 different Amish communities. One of those is the one in question near Mayfield, Ky. You won't find any more strict sect than this one. There will be no bright colors or even anything shiny allowed. There is another sect around Mayfield that actually drives cars and trucks. BUT, the vehicles they drive are black or gray and I've even seen some that the chrome has been painted over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wade52 View Post
I wonder if the Amish will sue the state when a vehicle traveling down the road within the speed limit demolishes one of their unmarked buggies?
To show the slow moving sign doesn't work that good, a couple months ago a truck driver turned his head to find something in his truck and rear ended an Amish buggy WITH the bright orange sign on the back. The Amish family's 3 year old daughter was killed instantly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
It is doubtful if that quilt would be allowed in the particular Amish order that would not put the triangles on their vehicles. I can't say for sure that this is the case, but it seems to me that you may be confusing quilts from different orders of Amish in this case.

The Old Order Swartzentruber Amish are among the plainest of the Amish. Colors used in their quilts are regulated by the bishops of the community.
One place I lived had an Amish community nearby. If you needed work done on your house you couldn't ask for a more affordable and well done job than what the Amish would do for you. And there are a lot of youth in the world that need to live with an Amish family for a couple weeks. After having to be up before sunrise, with no electricity, doing your chores around the house before school and more chores when you get home for a while, a lot of teens would be very thankful for everything they have. We had a crew replace part of our roof once. The main man brought his 10 year old son with him. He worked just as hard on that roof, tearing off the old shingles and nailing down the felt paper and new shingles, as the older men. The second day, when I went to get them, he was standing around the corner of the house, head hung low, and you could tell he was hurt. I asked his dad why he wasn't going. When they got home the day before, he didn't do all his chores, so he didn't earn the chance to go back and work with them. Most kids these days would be very happy now to have to climb up on a roof all day.

I forgot to comment on the post wondering about if they had to wear the orange jumpsuits. No they didn't. The jailer had gray jumpsuits they could wear and they were kept away from the rest of the inmates at the county jail. The Amish men showed up earlier than they were told to come in. When the jailer told them they couldn't process them yet, the men sat outside the courthouse until they could be processed in.

Last edited by kygman; 10-03-2011 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 10-04-2011, 04:26 AM
 
39,257 posts, read 10,922,331 times
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"To show the slow moving sign doesn't work that good, a couple months ago a truck driver turned his head to find something in his truck and rear ended an Amish buggy WITH the bright orange sign on the back. The Amish family's 3 year old daughter was killed instantly."

I'm truly sorry to hear that, but the fault was not with the sign but with the driver not watching what was in front of him. The same would have happened with anything other than an even larger truck, or a vehicle with a loud siren as well as a warning sign. Perhaps the Amishmobiles should have sirens as well, just to avoid being hit by idiots looking for their lunch or another CD instead of watching the road.

The drooling praise of their simple and honest lifestyle is, of course, nothing to the point.
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