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Old 09-16-2011, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,277,534 times
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I hate to say this but, yes, I think the atheist/skeptical movement does have a bit of a problem with sexism. After watching 'Elevatorgate' explode a few months ago and reading some of the ignorant comments by fellow atheists about it, I reluctantly concluded that it is an issue that needs to be talked about. Richard Dawkins jumped into the fray and offered a few poorly thought out comments that inflamed the situation even further. Here is a link with a run-down of what happened:

Greta Christina's Blog: Why We Have to Talk About This: Atheism, Sexism, and Blowing Up The Internet

The good news is that we got a new podcast out of it. Beth Presswood, wife of Matt Dillahunty who is a well-known host on The Atheist Experience, created a podcast called 'Godless B*tches (had to change the last name of the title due to the filter). Man that turned out to be a complicated sentence! Anyhoo, the podcast discusses 'atheism from a feminist perspective'. The first 5 shows have been great.

http://godless*******.podbean.com/
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:43 PM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,923,003 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maia160 View Post
I hate to say this but, yes, I think the atheist/skeptical movement does have a bit of a problem with sexism. After watching 'Elevatorgate' explode a few months ago and reading some of the ignorant comments by fellow atheists about it, I reluctantly concluded that it is an issue that needs to be talked about. Richard Dawkins jumped into the fray and offered a few poorly thought out comments that inflamed the situation even further. Here is a link with a run-down of what happened:

Greta Christina's Blog: Why We Have to Talk About This: Atheism, Sexism, and Blowing Up The Internet

The good news is that we got a new podcast out of it. Beth Presswood, wife of Matt Dillahunty who is a well-known host on The Atheist Experience, created a podcast called 'Godless B*tches (had to change the last name of the title due to the filter). Man that turned out to be a complicated sentence! Anyhoo, the podcast discusses 'atheism from a feminist perspective'. The first 5 shows have been great.

http://godless*******.podbean.com/
I agree. Your link doesn't work though.
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Old 09-16-2011, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,277,534 times
Reputation: 498
hmmmm.....I'm assuming it's not working as the second word is censored.

So, sub the word for, ahem, a female dog as the second word and you should be able to type in the link.

godlessb*tches.podbean.com
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:00 PM
 
39,217 posts, read 10,895,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maia160 View Post
I hate to say this but, yes, I think the atheist/skeptical movement does have a bit of a problem with sexism. After watching 'Elevatorgate' explode a few months ago and reading some of the ignorant comments by fellow atheists about it, I reluctantly concluded that it is an issue that needs to be talked about. Richard Dawkins jumped into the fray and offered a few poorly thought out comments that inflamed the situation even further. Here is a link with a run-down of what happened:

Greta Christina's Blog: Why We Have to Talk About This: Atheism, Sexism, and Blowing Up The Internet

The good news is that we got a new podcast out of it. Beth Presswood, wife of Matt Dillahunty who is a well-known host on The Atheist Experience, created a podcast called 'Godless B*tches (had to change the last name of the title due to the filter). Man that turned out to be a complicated sentence! Anyhoo, the podcast discusses 'atheism from a feminist perspective'. The first 5 shows have been great.

http://godless*******.podbean.com/
I thought that the thread was about whether atheism/skepticism was somehow a male thing rather than a female thing. However this is raising the 'Elevatorgate' question.

Prominent skeptic Richard Dawkins opined that Watson had nothing to complain about because Muslim women suffer genital mutilation.
Attention, Space Cadets: Do Not Proposition Women in the Elevator | Focal Point | Big Think

"Dear Muslima

Stop whining, will you. Yes, yes, I know you had your genitals mutilated with a razor blade, and . . . yawn . . . don’t tell me yet again, I know you aren’t allowed to drive a car, and you can’t leave the house without a male relative, and your husband is allowed to beat you, and you’ll be stoned to death if you commit adultery. But stop whining, will you. Think of the suffering your poor American sisters have to put up with.

Only this week I heard of one, she calls herself Skep”chick”, and do you know what happened to her? A man in a hotel elevator invited her back to his room for coffee. I am not exaggerating. He really did. He invited her back to his room for coffee. Of course she said no, and of course he didn’t lay a finger on her, but even so . . .

And you, Muslima, think you have misogyny to complain about! For goodness sake grow up, or at least grow a thicker skin.

Richard

The Privilege Delusion - Skepchick

I think the problem here is not about atheism or skepticism but about male attitudes, skeptical or not. Now, I know that remarks can be misunderstood - a comment about rape by a UK politician was taken totally the wrong way, recently, but Dawkins' comment does appear to indicate a lack of sympathy with how vulnerable a lone woman can feel in a deserted place in the small hours when some strange man hits on her.

I would suggest that we blokes could listen. I would also suggest that the ladies explain their concerns rather than scream for a boycott of Dawkins.

If this leads to a more thoughtful view on the part of the men in atheist groups than we might find in some other places, then the discussion is to be welcomed.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Western NC
651 posts, read 1,277,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I thought that the thread was about whether atheism/skepticism was somehow a male thing rather than a female thing. However this is raising the 'Elevatorgate' question.
I agree. The reason I brought this issue up is that problems women are reporting happening at some of these conferences might be keeping women away from the movement. This may explain part, but not all, of the imbalance of the male to female ratio at these events.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA


The Privilege Delusion - Skepchick

I think the problem here is not about atheism or skepticism but about male attitudes, skeptical or not. Now, I know that remarks can be misunderstood - a comment about rape by a UK politician was taken totally the wrong way, recently, but Dawkins' comment does appear to indicate a lack of sympathy with how vulnerable a lone woman can feel in a deserted place in the small hours when some strange man hits on her.

I would suggest that we blokes could listen. I would also suggest that the ladies explain their concerns rather than scream for a boycott of Dawkins.
Yup, I also agree that the situation got out of hand. I'm no fan of Rebecca Watson and I think that she handled this issue poorly; but, I was also taken by surprise by some of the comments made by fellow atheists.
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Old 09-16-2011, 07:10 PM
 
9,412 posts, read 11,743,488 times
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I have been living under a rock obviously, because I had never even heard of Elevatogate. I seldom read blogs, actually I think I've read maybe 4 blogs and they were all about knitting.

Sexism is alive and well unfortunately and the learned men of science are still basically living in the dark ages where women are seen and not heard, mainly because the hard sciences don't attract that many women still, in this day and age.

It's disappointing to say the least.
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Old 09-16-2011, 11:28 PM
 
17,853 posts, read 12,236,080 times
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Originally Posted by boxcar overkill View Post
there's a huge amount of religious bias as well.
lol!
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:00 AM
 
2,031 posts, read 2,413,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nana053 View Post
Do Atheists Have A Sexism Problem?

I would suggest that there may be a bit of a racism problem as well as a sexism one. That's changing as well.
You must be impressively confused as to the concept of 'sexism' if you think the fact that more men then women self-identify as atheists is sexist.

Or (and this undoubtedly went right over your head), by your logic, not being an atheist is sexist towards men (again, only by your highly illogical 'logic').

Next thing, you'll be telling us that speaking Icelandic is very racist (since virtually all speakers are white).

Again, it really helps to think through the implications of what you're trying to pass off as logic before hitting that SUBMIT button.
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Old 09-17-2011, 02:11 AM
 
39,217 posts, read 10,895,806 times
Reputation: 5097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maia160 View Post
I agree. The reason I brought this issue up is that problems women are reporting happening at some of these conferences might be keeping women away from the movement. This may explain part, but not all, of the imbalance of the male to female ratio at these events.



Yup, I also agree that the situation got out of hand. I'm no fan of Rebecca Watson and I think that she handled this issue poorly; but, I was also taken by surprise by some of the comments made by fellow atheists.
I was surprised at how easy it was for me to just slip into the 'what's she getting all riled up about' and 'a woman should expect a few approaches' frame of mind rather than try to put myself in their position.

Fact is that being an atheist doesn't turn one into a perfect human bean. People still have the old views and modes of thinking and it's a good chance to lead the way in raising this issue as racism became an issue in the sixties and homophobia in the 70's became issues.

it was good thing because it altered views. This is the chance for atheists to apply the rational view to this matter as well. That goes for Dawkins, too. I'm a fan but that doesn't put him beyond criticism.

I was embarrassed at his turning a discussion with a creationist into an ad hom attack rather than explaining where the reasoning was wrong. I saw him being uncompromisingly aggressive with an evolutionary theist. He has misjudged here, too.
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Old 09-17-2011, 07:40 AM
 
16,105 posts, read 17,923,003 times
Reputation: 15897
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur View Post
You must be impressively confused as to the concept of 'sexism' if you think the fact that more men then women self-identify as atheists is sexist.

Or (and this undoubtedly went right over your head), by your logic, not being an atheist is sexist towards men (again, only by your highly illogical 'logic').

Next thing, you'll be telling us that speaking Icelandic is very racist (since virtually all speakers are white).

Again, it really helps to think through the implications of what you're trying to pass off as logic before hitting that SUBMIT button.
No, the problem is NOT with women not self-identifying as atheist, but with attitudes towards women from male atheists who are just as sexist as other males.

I think that atheist men *could* easily be less sexist, but they often don't listen to what women are saying. Look at elevatorgate and Dawkins replies.
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