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Old 10-01-2011, 09:17 AM
Location: kind of North of the middle of nowhere, FL
4,140 posts, read 3,309,130 times
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Well, I had the proverbial client from Hell (If Hell did exist, which it does not, but be that as it may....)
Again, this is a self proclaimed Evangelical Southern Baptist, the same one whom I mentioned in previous postings of bearing witness to spousal abuse and lately taunting the advantages of one handgun over the other.

As do most of these types, he again inquired as to my religious beliefs, and with a few minutes to spare I indulged him

Along the way he made definitive claim that according to the teachings of Paul, the ONLY thing required for admission to heaven was spelled out in the Bible, and it involved ONLY the acceptance of a resurrection of "Jesus" and acceptance therin of this as one's salvation.
During the conversation he denied that good works and morality are not neccesary. As he said "These preachers you here about that get into all this trouble, if they belive what the Bible says they are saved regardless"

AS our conversation continued, he told me that since the ONLY purpose we have here on life is to accept Jesus, and thus gain entrance into Heaven, which is eternal, our works here on earth are worthless.
According to him "You can be a baby murderer , a rapist, the most vile person who ever lived and as long as you believe, God will welcome you into eternal heven. You can be the greatest person in the community and still go to hell"

So I posed the question of how shallow and worthless that seemed, if he is doing no good for that which we know to be real, the hear and now, over something mythic, and even worse, somthing based on the writings of someone who wrote purely out of emotion and suffered from known mental disorders (Paul)
He denied that this is shallow saying "Only Heaven matters"

For me, I choose reality, doing good for my world, without regrads to any reward in heaven, which includes taking management of certain right wing evangelicals who cannot appreciate that which we do for them anyways......

I say also if religion(s) do no good for society, as this man states, then why have them? Clearly this would help to explain the failure of Christianity in the world today. AS we humans become more enlightened, more able to use reason and logic to solve problems ranging from agricultural renewal to lunar colonization, we see a sense of responsibility that comes with such technological advances and theories. And with this rising intellegence we have GAINED the insight and wisdom to use these projects for the good of our planet, of our fellow man, because inside most of us understand that suffering and pain are unneccesary.
At least those of us outside of negative rleigions do.........
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:41 AM
Location: Sitting beside Walden Pond
4,610 posts, read 3,664,768 times
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I guess religion means different things to different people.

As for myself, I have always been an Atheist and I think I am a very moral person. I always treat people like I would like them to treat me.

I think some people have some aspects of their character they would like to change, and religion, especially a very personal religion like Christianity, helps them. They accept Jesus as their guide in life and it helps them be better people.

One of my good friends told me he became a Catholic because their teachings help guide him in his life.

Maybe your "client from hell" is a totally lost cause, just like these Islamic terrorists who glorify killing innocent people. However, I believe religion does help a lot of people to lead better lives.
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:33 AM
Location: NC, USA
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I am told Morality is not neccesary for being a Christian

I have long suspected that it would be contra-indicated.
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Old 10-01-2011, 12:00 PM
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I am told Morality is not necessary for being a Christian

A self-evident truth
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:39 PM
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 11,560,928 times
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"All you've gotta do is...."

That's a bit of a joke we have at work when one shift runs out of time to complete a certain job and has to turn it over to the next shift for completion. In an attempt to show how much they did, the giving shift will often give you a long rundown of all the things they installed, routed, and wired up on the airplane. Then, they'll say, we just simply ran out of time to do X, Y, and Z but "all you gotta do is..."

On the receiving end, the next shift will go out there to take care of what was called a "simplistic" job and it turns into an all night or all day fiasco. "All you gotta do, huh?"

And that is the essential premise behind these Christian door-to-door salesmen. They throw out a piece of bait and make everything sound so simple, attractive, and luring. "All you gotta do is... Take Jesus into your mou... errr.... heart." Suddenly, you're being invited to church where you can meet other mindless zombies wandering around with the same dismal and miserable ideas of how the universe operates.

But, they've all been doing this long enough so that no one is able to disrupt the status quo. They'll all stand around in groups and talk about how gay marriage is evil, evolution has no evidence, what a great apple pie Margaret makes (while excluding the fact that she's banging Pastor Jim on the side), and how "great" the sermon was today.

Somehow, through some weird human need to be wanted, you might crack a joke in favor of their ideas, or maybe make a comment a little bit more extreme or opposite of how you really, actually do feel. People will smile and agree with you and they'll give each other "the look" which says: "He's one of us. It's cool."

From there, with no dissenters to disrupt the whirring fan blades of illogical misconceptions, the statements and ideas you may have previously been borderline on, now seem appealing because it places you in a group that "cares" about you and because you've sacrificed everything that's true to you to belong to this gang of simpleminded fools.

Next thing you know, you're wife is baking apple pies for Pastor Jim, you're discussing the apropos benefits of a life with Christ to some guy you pulled up next to in traffic, your Jesus fish has stopped growing feet, and you're filled with a hatred of all those not like you - up to and including: people of different faiths, sexual orientations, sometimes race, those poorer than you, those with no faith, dancers, drinkers, smokers, Democrats, and anyone who doesn't shoot a gun (because Jesus carried a sword).

In essence, you've sacrificed everything you would normally hold near and dear to yourself in an effort to fit in and belong to this group of people who persuaded and told you that "all you gotta do is take Jesus into your heart." They forget to tell you that it comes with the excess baggage of sacrificing your own standards, morals, and convictions for a Bronze Age method of doing business.

Yeah... "All you gotta do is..." We'll see about that...
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:06 PM
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 12,740,000 times
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It's nice to know that literally anyone may wind up in heaven, as long as they simply believe. Why bother even trying to be a good person? If you see an opportunity that may satisfy you in some way (rape, murder, theft, arson, etc) and are almost positive you won't get caught, then apparently you might as well go ahead and do the act. As long as you believe, everything is permissible as long as you don't get caught, according to this guy. Unless you're an atheist, of course. Wait, if you're an atheist you're going to hell anyway, so really the situation is no different.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a LOT of crimes to commit.
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Old 10-01-2011, 06:37 PM
Location: Space Coast
1,989 posts, read 4,201,128 times
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My first thought when reading the OP was that the "client from hell" sounds like he is trying to justify his actions to ease a guilty conscience. I wonder what he's been up to.
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Old 10-01-2011, 10:08 PM
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 10,471,629 times
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Default Wow! Look at all them prizes!

This wanders into that long-held viewpoint by our more ardent Christian evangelicals here, that we atheists are no-good a-moralistic cretins. They do not like that we could simply and honestly profess, even sincerely, our love of Jesus or God at the last minute and scamper, unstoppably, into the pearly gates and beyond, instead of being humiliated and hell-bound, where they damn-well want us to end up!

I like the last-minute confession and devotion idea! I think I'll take advantage of that option! Door Number Three is it? Thanks God!
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Old 10-01-2011, 11:58 PM
Location: Springfield, Ohio
10,870 posts, read 8,511,457 times
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It sounds like the so-called Christian you had as a client is misinterpreting the Bible (or using willful omission, as many religious types the world over tend to do). He must've missed the Ten Commandments, Golden Rule, etc. I've always enjoyed the fact Christianity is the only religion where one is allowed to commit the worst crimes against humanity and nature, but if they say "I'm sorry" seconds before death and really, really mean it, all is forgiven.
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Old 10-02-2011, 12:30 AM
Location: kind of North of the middle of nowhere, FL
4,140 posts, read 3,309,130 times
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I think that it is most interesting in that I, as a non-theist, do not indulge in such activity such as murder, rape, or any other such crimes which are spelled out in the state and federal codes NOT becuase Of punishment or adherance to a religion but only because I do not engage in things which are morally wrong and harmful on any level. This guy I am talking about for one seems to be of the belief that "Man's laws do not matter, only God's laws" and of that only the law of accepting Jesus as spelled out in One of Paul's Chapters is all that matters. He also mentioned that God does not love unconditionally, that God only loves those who accept Him etc For me that is the Ultimate proof in God's non-existance: If God is NOT An all powerful all loving and all encompassing entity, then what good is he/she/it? The answer is He/She/It is just an extension of our Human minds a superhuman with all the shortcomings of humanity, personality disorders and all, and an ego to boot.

Two weeks ago, my sons and I were getting donuts on Friday morning before school at the wrolds best donut shop here. It is our Friday routine , a special treat to signal in the end of the week. There was a guy behind us as we were leaving, he asked if they took credit cards and the girl said "NO ccash only sorry" So he walked out behind us. Now I have never met or seen this guy but I stopped and I asked him if he needed some money to buy a donut. He said yes THanks SO I gave him enough money from the change I had gotten to buy one.
My kids both said "Daddy that was really nice of you to help that man out" Well, I did it because it was the right thing to do. It was wrong to let someone go about his day hungry if it were within my power to help, which it was. It cost me 75 cents to make that guys day to show him that strangers in this world care. It was not a deed I did to get into some non-existant heaven or avouid some non-existant hell. It was not based on religious orders or convictions. it was simply the human thing to do ...the right thing to do for another human being.

BUT I know guys like this particular client from hell would never have done such a thing because it does not impact his getting into heaven which I guess with a life as miserable as his, all he has is the hope that when he dies he would go onto something better. For me My hope is that someone I meet on this planet has a little better more pleasant more fun happier day because of me.

I too wonder what he is trying to justify in his mind that he has done along the way. I know he is a very abusive person to his wife. I also know he drinks heavily, although with his financial and health problems he should not. I do know that from dealing with fundie/evangelical types, there are a lot I mean a LOT of hypocrits in that movement. So I am not suprised by this one, but I am suprised that he would try to convert me, or as I see it, bring me down to his level.
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