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Old 11-06-2011, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Northeastern US
14,197 posts, read 9,094,403 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
When I read the 'I used to be an atheist, like you, until...' type of evangelist website, I rather wonder whether it is possible for an atheist, when they have seen how false the arguments are for any particular religion, could ever join one.
On the other hand this is the mirror of the common Christian idea that when someone deconverts they just weren't a true Christian the first place.

If a "true Christian" can deconvert, then a "true atheist'" can convert.

It could happen for any number of reasons, including family / spousal pressure, loneliness, social isolation, existential angst, residual religious guilt and/or fear that was not successfully dealt with. I've heard of people who de / re convert repeatedly; some of them finally find a stable state on one side of the question or the other.

I've come to the conclusion that atheism is essentially the ability to sit with uncertainty and to do without the fake certitude that religion sells. At the end of the day, though, you gotta do what you gotta do to get through life, and as my Methodist late wife used to say after my deconversion, I'll take a false sense of security if it's all I can get.
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Old 11-26-2011, 07:36 AM
 
29 posts, read 178,035 times
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I don't what it is going to take to get people to realize the truth of "what you resist, persists." I don't believe in any conventional god either, but to start a movement of "not believing" is a counter productive vacuum and only fans the flames (quit putting gasoline on their causes and giving them a 'devil' to fight against). I have thought seriously of starting a Free Thinkers society and just let it be a round of discussion about whatever topics folks want to explore (specific beliefs for or against a certain thing not required). I like the concept of addition rather than subtraction in cultivating free thought.
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Old 11-26-2011, 08:00 AM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
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Always that risk, but I believe that the truth will and must prevail, and the truth is what best accords with the best information. I don't fear reaction any more than we needed to fear the geocentric system, the flat earth, any other widely - held beliefs that are now held only by a few wackos.
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Old 11-26-2011, 09:31 AM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,923,134 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayDick View Post
My wife and I are a TINY bit jealous of religious people for the fact that they have an extra social club on weekends to meet with people who are likeminded. So we put out some feelers for people in our area who are atheists, and want to get together to discuss life, music, movies, parenting, mutual disdain for holy rollers, etc. We found an atheist "club," and went to a meetup.

The only problem....most of us don't have much else in common besides non-belief in God. Ironically, I don't find this to be such a horrible thing. It just means atheists aren't the stumbling clones that religious folk are. I still haven't given up on finding some non-religious people who are focused on life, not afterlife.
Few misconceptions and myths ---------

1. There is ALOT of social gatherings for Christians ... a prelude to what Heaven is going to be like . It is so uplifting and beneficial. And..we dont sit around bashing atheists either .

2. Why have disdain for holy rollers ? We ALL are excited and committed to something in our lives . For Christians, its the biggest of all biggest sources and, the most important.

3. What are 'stumbling clones' to you in reference to Christians ?

4. You dont really think Christians focus on the afterlife do you ? We give good focus to the present life which is the forerunner to the next life . We enjoy the many wholesome good things this life has to offer...without submitting to the secular cultures immoral and unrestrained 'fun' -- thats all.

5. Besides, you are no longer a true atheist any longer...since you admitted to an intelligent / personal source for the Cosmos in the other thread . So, check out Theist clubs in your locale . And, congradulations by the way. Peace.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:11 AM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
007, you are a hoot. That gave me a good laugh over coffee.

On the basis of an open minded acceptance of a possibility of a sorta -god you want the world and his wife to gallop around to to the nearest chapel to sing songs to santaclaus. 'Oh you will be so happy hand-clapping and singing along as I do. It will put a meaning in a life that would be as meaningless as mine would be without an imaginary friend'.

Again I thank you for a post that illustrates (in a real give-away manner) the Leap of Faith fallacy that is one of the stock theist conversion packages, as well as giving me a good chuckle.
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:20 AM
 
Location: Coastal Georgia
37,152 posts, read 45,694,157 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayDick View Post
Well we've done that, too. I have friends who are into snowboarding, mountain biking, movies, good books, etc.

However, my wife and I are sarcastic, cynical people who, for lack of a better way to put it, practice making religious people the butt of our jokes in our spare time. We thought perhaps an atheist social club might put us in that venue. It wasn't our only hope at making friends, like "put all the chips on red 23, the fellow atheists!"
Just wondering if you realize that some people are making sarcastic jokes about people like you also?
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Old 11-27-2011, 04:25 AM
 
39,207 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
On the other hand this is the mirror of the common Christian idea that when someone deconverts they just weren't a true Christian the first place.

If a "true Christian" can deconvert, then a "true atheist'" can convert.

It could happen for any number of reasons, including family / spousal pressure, loneliness, social isolation, existential angst, residual religious guilt and/or fear that was not successfully dealt with. I've heard of people who de / re convert repeatedly; some of them finally find a stable state on one side of the question or the other.

I've come to the conclusion that atheism is essentially the ability to sit with uncertainty and to do without the fake certitude that religion sells. At the end of the day, though, you gotta do what you gotta do to get through life, and as my Methodist late wife used to say after my deconversion, I'll take a false sense of security if it's all I can get.
That's always a choice and it's a surprisingly large part of the Theist worldview. So much of the justification is based on the argument - not that theism is true - but that without it, civilization would collapse, everyone would have Stalin for president and the soup kitchens would have to close down.

While I have still not recieved the crystal ball I ordered last birthday, I have to be unconvinced by this doom - laden scenario of the theist and history makes me doubt that a world run by theocrats would be so bloody wonderful either.

In any case, none of that has any bearing on whether theism or atheism is true or not, just that some would still want to believe it, even if it wasn't true. In the most sincere way, I see this as no more than an addiction. This idea that some higher power has it all in hand, no matter how alarming it may look is appealing but essentially a waste of your life and your brain.

I believe that people really would prefer to believe that their views are correct and, while it is is common human nature to dismiss unwelcome disproofs with 'I don't care what you say..I still think..' it is a sad way to live and I pity them, though they may believe they are happy enough.
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Old 11-27-2011, 12:51 PM
 
2,996 posts, read 4,923,134 times
Reputation: 1793
Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
007, you are a hoot. That gave me a good laugh over coffee.

On the basis of an open minded acceptance of a possibility of a sorta -god you want the world and his wife to gallop around to to the nearest chapel to sing songs to santaclaus. 'Oh you will be so happy hand-clapping and singing along as I do. It will put a meaning in a life that would be as meaningless as mine would be without an imaginary friend'.

Again I thank you for a post that illustrates (in a real give-away manner) the Leap of Faith fallacy that is one of the stock theist conversion packages, as well as giving me a good chuckle.
He who laughs first, laughs last . 'What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world , yet forfiets his soul ?'
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Old 11-27-2011, 05:00 PM
 
4,454 posts, read 5,749,366 times
Reputation: 2186
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayDick View Post
My wife and I are a TINY bit jealous of religious people for the fact that they have an extra social club on weekends to meet with people who are likeminded. So we put out some feelers for people in our area who are atheists, and want to get together to discuss life, music, movies, parenting, mutual disdain for holy rollers, etc. We found an atheist "club," and went to a meetup.

The only problem....most of us don't have much else in common besides non-belief in God. Ironically, I don't find this to be such a horrible thing. It just means atheists aren't the stumbling clones that religious folk are. I still haven't given up on finding some non-religious people who are focused on life, not afterlife.
Join an social group or an sporting group where you could find like minded people there while having fun.
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Old 11-27-2011, 10:01 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,893 posts, read 31,788,057 times
Reputation: 12635
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
He who laughs first, laughs last . 'What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world , yet forfiets his soul ?'
Actually the saying is "He who laughs last, laughs best"
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