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Old 11-01-2011, 09:29 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayLight1555 View Post
[...]

I don't know what they are: beings, energies, fantasies of the brain... but it seems that something is happening to many people. And it would be nice to have an explanation for it.
So so true, I myself have had extremely minor and not very amazing Audatory and Visual hallucination when depraved of sleep... well, One time it was just a shadow and I had perfect sleep. I've also have had what seem to be out of body experiences as I fall asleep midday, though I was able to see that my mind was probably fabricating the whole thing as I could not make out the words in the paper I was holding... oddly enough (though different from a dream) I couldn't force my own imagined words onto the paper either, only random small misty and fading sequences of letters (which could have been because my language understanding/projecting center was already asleep).

... imagine if and when science is able to liberate our minds??? obviously, telepathy is the first easiest break that science would be able to make into the "paranormal"
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Old 11-02-2011, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,207,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
There are atheists and agnostics that believe in ghosts and spirits. And to be honest, I'm not sure why.....If these people were smart enough to use logic that discredits religious claims, why still have faith in ghosts? It is very confusing when atheists do this (to me at least).
Because ghosts do not equal religion, and because the more you learn about the subject, the less you can discredit the whole phenomenon.

Assuming we know and understand everything there is to know and understand is dangerously closed-minded, kinda like being a fundie.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wscottling View Post
Er... agnostics are not in the "I don't believe in [insert deity here] realm. Agnostics say, "I don't know if there is a [insert deity here] or not." Hence the name "agnostic"

Therefore, it's not a stretch for agnostics to believe in the possibility of spirits or other things beyond the explanation of science.
That can be true. I stand corrected.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
The biosphere and how it relates to inanimate matter... These things aren't separate and how one uses the other to grow a greater and greater influence on the other is at the core of spiritualism.
What would this "inanimate matter" be?
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Vermont
10,311 posts, read 11,232,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherologist View Post
Hello, please forgive me if my question seems ignorant, but my husband and I were just having a discussion and I told him I would post it here.

Do atheists believe in ghost/spirits?

My husband seems to think that there is some connection between God and spirits. His reasoning was, "if atheists don't believe in God, why would there be a spirit world", or something like that. My argument was, "why does there have to be a God to control the spirit world?".

Anyway, we were batting this back and forth (me totally unable to see where he was going with his thought process) when I decided, "why not go straight to the source?".

Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks.

weather...
Your husband is basically right, in my view.

Even if you believe in some god you have to be pretty softheaded to believe in ghosts, spirits, apparitions, reincarnation, and the like. the point is, there is no evidence for any of it. Particularly for ghosts: once you understand that 1005 of every thought, perception, sensation, and emotion that humans have is the product of physical and electrical processes within the human body you realize that there is nothing left to continue to exist after the person's death.

People are way too ignorant of coincidence, randomness, and the ability of the mind to believe and interpret things that are just not true.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:04 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,681,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
Because ghosts do not equal religion, and because the more you learn about the subject, the less you can discredit the whole phenomenon.

Assuming we know and understand everything there is to know and understand is dangerously closed-minded, kinda like being a fundie.
I agree. Maybe I should look further into it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,377,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
Indeed. Being atheist does not require signing up to a list of things designated 'supernatural' to which credence may not be given.

Anything with a reasonable sound evidential support can be given credence. I have sometimes observed that UFO's have better evidence than Biblegod or Christ - or any of the other gods for that matter. Ghosts have better evidential support than Biblegod, Christ or other gods. So does prognostication, telepathy, prediluvuian civilisation (though the diluvian bit has less going for it) and alternative medicine.

Astrology, gods from outer space (sorry ) fairies and Yeti and Bigfoot, Chupacabra and Nessie (sorry again ) have no better support than gods.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fogg'd_rflmn
Ach'ully, AERE ewlde chum, we do have some (admittedly unfocused) pix of Nessie. Not so with nor for The One True God.

Can you imagine? A fuzzy photo of God, taken from inside the fogged-up window of one's Roller Silver Ghost (well, it was taken in London in a rainfall event, after all..) [btw, I used to own a 1959, yes, '59!!!!; Morris Mini 850; the first year of Mini production!, with those lovely sliding plastic side curtains. Sir Alex Issigonis was a frickin' genius! But... talk about being fogged up!].
That is why atheists generally do not believe in them. It is a misapprehension to suppose that those things which do not evidentially stack up well enough to be believed coincidentally are on a hypothetical list of beliefs proscribed for a card - carrying atheist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
I LOVE this topic, much the chagrin of the other atheists on this forum.

For me, it's not doing "mental somersaults" to believe in ghosts but not god.

First I've seen ghosts and experience ghostly phenomenon. I've never seen/experienced god, however.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the_good_doc_rflmn
Do not fear, Presto-Chango: we've found out exactly where you've moved to and have re-directed your home-delivery medications to arrive any time now. Don't throw them out again, OK? They are good for you! Trust me, YrHmblSrvnt Dr. Rifleman!
Ghosts are pervasive throughout all human cultures and times, however. I personally suspect the phenomenon may have initially spawned religion and belief in an afterlife in the first place.

Religion was man's first attempt to explain the circumstances of our existence; we now know Zeus doesn't throw lightning bolts around when he's mad, and that our sun is not a falcon-headed god with a golden disk on his head, but science still hasn't tacked the question of why millions of people all over the world and across written history have seen ghosts. I hope someday it will.

Quote:
(rflmn's reminder-note: You have obviously forgotten YSM...)
They are most likely as of yet undiscovered natural phenomenon that is possibly tied into the quantum environment, perhaps "recordings" somehow left in the environment or even crossings in dimensions or branes as hypothesized in M-theory.
Quick! Go find Dr Mystic! We need him stat!
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,143 posts, read 19,207,122 times
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Oh Riflmn... I'm worried that you might suffer from the unfortunate disease of Retovertis Phantasmogoris, which attacks neural peptide receptors and tragically renders victims incapable of seeing ghosts. Although tests are inconclusive, it's believed that extended time in a University environment renders victims susceptible to the disease.

Many Universities have established Parapsychology and/or Philosophy departments in an attempt to counter the menace, but tragically the majority of PHD graduates are left completely unable to view spirits, demons, angels, lake monsters, fairies, yetis, Sasquatches and on rare occasions even UFOs.

I'm sorry but there is only proven cure; you must live long enough to experience the academic environment 100 years past your own; an experience that will almost certainly lead to a perspective breaking realization of how little we actually know compared to how much we think we already know.

And BTW, those meds only got rid of that pesky Leprechaun...

Last edited by Chango; 11-02-2011 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:20 PM
 
27,903 posts, read 34,460,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aganusn View Post
What would this "inanimate matter" be?
Really? Is this a serious question?
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:30 PM
 
2,447 posts, read 2,681,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJon3475 View Post
Really? Is this a serious question?
I should have clarified: the post was very vague. I was wondering what he or she meant by it.

"The biosphere and how it relates to inanimate matter... These things aren't separate and how one uses the other to grow a greater and greater influence on the other is at the core of spiritualism."

What does spiritualism have anything to do with this? That's what I was wondering. Spiritualism is a very vague concept.
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