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Old 12-04-2011, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
The molecular vibratory "speed" of the physical body we inhabit is sub-light . . . but our consciousness exists as a composite of pure resonant neural energy at light-squared molecular "speed" (E= MC^2). This is what enables our consciousness to transcend the limits of our current space and time to contemplate past, present and future . . . among other things.
Given Einstein's formula and assuming it is an individuals consciousness or intelligence, I know many that would be unable to blow their nose.
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:17 PM
Location: Toronto, ON
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Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Given Einstein's formula and assuming it is an individuals consciousness or intelligence, I know many that would be unable to blow their nose.
Two universes for the nose blowing, and the Consciousness just being consciousness. What are we conscious of; to Einstein it surely wasn't Life.
To Jobs I'd think the past, present, and future Had the chemical completion. <I know who you are.>
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Old 12-04-2011, 04:21 PM
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Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
We're a little more self-aware, I'd say, than thet-thar cockroach, but who really KNOWS, right? But, at least at the "forward-planning" and "Oh no; what have I done" official "possible consequences of one's actions" part, I doubt the dog, and certainly not the 'roach, possess those abilities!

But that does not in any way prove up an afterlife. Or a God.
We are obviously more aware of the consequences of our actions now on the short term future........... or are we? Which is the most successful in survival...... long term?

We are the only species that seems hell bent on destroying our own species. Is that a consequence of belief in this mythical afterlife and the gods fairy tales are made of........
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:56 PM
Location: home...finally, home .
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I think it`s the same way with spiritual things. Just because we can`t see them right now, doesn`t mean they are not there. There will be plenty of discoveries in future lifetimes that we never knew about. Today you would say, they don`t exist. But they did exist, you just didn`t see them.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

At least I hope so.......

People may not recall what you said to them, but they will always remember how you made them feel .
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:03 PM
Location: New Mexico
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Question Steve Jobs' prophetic last words

Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
It was announced this morning on a CNN website that, according to his sister, Steve Jobs' last words as he passed, were:

"Oh wow. Oh wow! Oh wow!"

How's that a prophecy?
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:08 AM
Location: Central Florida
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Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
But why do you feel that (biochemically induced) personhood is not so easily reduced after death to that same mucky sludge in the bottom of your casket? By what evidence, feelings, experiences, etc? Were they totally unambiguous or were they completely selective?
Personhood in Buddhism isn't biochemically induced, it's karmicly induced. The physical aspects that make ones body are just a very small part of ones personhood. I personally don't see how my personhood is reducible merely to atoms of my body. My life is more than my body and its boundaries are unknown. Again, I'm not a materialist.

BTW, spiritually, to me, Buddhism is an interesting alternative, but then there's still a "bunch" of inexplicable alternatives, right? Who's right? Where's the popular phone-in score sheet and results of the Majority Rules tally? Like an American Idol night of elimination perhaps? Simon? What do you say?
A friend (who BTW is Episcopalian not Buddhist) put it this way, it's not about who is right or wrong, it's who you want to make the journey with. Applying crass standards of verification to religious and spiritual matters is a category error. I can speak for Buddhism, the right and wrong beliefs are the ones that lead to an end to suffering for yourself and others, that's the only standard to measure things. If somebody finds being a Christian or Muslim helps them live a life motivated by bodhichitta (awakenend mind, manifested in compassion and altruism), then that is their path.

Rifleman says: So it would somehow reach into our more base humanistic/animalistic feelings, esp. if we die & go there at the height of, oh say... the peak of male teenaged testosterone. And it would selectively purge aspects of our biochemically mediated personalities? Make us something else than what we were when/before we left for Heaven's Gate?
Yeah, we won't be the same persons in heaven... actually many Christians would agree with that too. Some have beliefs explicitly in a Purgatory, others don't.

So we're something else then? So... a convicted sadist chainsaw murderer of dozens of young children? He can't get into heaven because he's an evil sadist? And the righteous don't want him to be forgiven nor in any way let off the hook, so to speak... Or alternately he can go, because he's gonna undergo the same complete psychological makeover we all will
I think a Christian would say it has more to do with ones desires... the sadistic chainsaw murderer would only get into heaven if their desire is truely to live loving other people, otherwise heaven isn't heaven. Most Christian theology says a person has to be "born again", regenerated, or repent of their sins and accept salvation through Jesus. That involves a degree of personal transformation particularly in ones attitude. The unrepentent axe murderer isn't going to be let into heaven, no.

In the Buddhist belief when you are born from the lotus calyx into the Pure Land you will leave behind Samsara, and Samsara is characterized by ignorance of the reality of the world, that the sense impressions we experience are delusive. The axe murderer who has faith in the Buddha's Vow and sincerely remembers the Buddha (buddhasmirti or nianfo) has his mind on the Buddha and not on Samsara and his evil karma, at that moment he is no longer an axe murderer but a devotee of the Buddha in the Pure Land. People are what they do and if you do something else, that is what you are. The Buddha is not at all a moralist and takes in all sorts of evil, foolish beings, accepting them as his children, in fact it was for such beings that he made his great vows, but... without mindfulness of the Buddha and sincerity evil people do not receive the benefits of this teaching- the Pure Land isn't real for them and doesn't exist for them- how could it?

As well, Christians have an ongoing very tough time (to the point that they won't even discuss it here or anywhere...) consolidating all the vastly different absolute views of how this afterlife thing works.
When I attended a Christian church many years ago, the afterlife for the blessed was eternal rest in the presence of the beatific vision of God.
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