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Old 11-22-2011, 03:46 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
13,624 posts, read 11,071,331 times
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well i say lights on!!! is it a god?? dont know,, could be the next step in another demension.. why you wonder i say this?? because in the past when i was laying down to go to sleep i've seen massive scary brite white light, i'm talking a ligtning bolt going off in you whole field of view!!! it's happened to me 4 times.. it's actually one of the things that have turned me into an agnostic... it raised me god meter a few percentage points...
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:52 PM
 
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"Oh Wow, Oh Wow, Oh Wow," is not a prophecy. It is an interjection.
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Old 11-22-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Northeastern US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason28 View Post
It's not really something that's provable in our terms.
... and therefore, for all practical intents and purposes, there is no point in discussing it because the discussion can go nowhere.

I'm acquainted with people who have had personal subjective experiences of what one might generically call "the divine" or "higher realms of consciousness" or "afterlife evidence", etc., and who find that persuasive -- for themselves. But it will never be something they can use to persuade anyone else. It's inherently limited. "God has no grandchildren", as the saying goes. Everyone must touch the ineffable (or not) for themselves.

For someone like me who has never had such experiences and does not appear even somewhat susceptible to them, it is Information Unobtanium and I prefer to order my life by what I can be sure of, while remaining open to any actual new data that might turn up. Perhaps your hoped-for scientific breakthroughs, perhaps a persuasive personal subjective experience of my own. Until then, it's all claims that are not verifiable -- not even to me personally -- and beyond a certain point (which I reached quite a long time ago) I become completely bored with the whole topic.

Besides ... I find that spirituality is far from centrally necessary or important to a reasonable life. I find my close human relationships to be sufficient for providing that sense of participating in something larger than myself. No one debates the existence or nature of my fiancee, children, grandchildren, step children or in-laws, or of my employer or friends. I find relating to and supporting these people completely satisfactory, or at least as satisfactory as anything appears to be for anyone. For me, if there ends up being "something more" it would only be icing on the cake. At the same time, I don't want to live forever anymore than I want to watch a movie that drones on for 12 hours, no matter hour good it is.

Besides, who is to say that some spiritual realm is automatically idyllic? Isn't that a bit convenient? If there is a spiritual realm it is probably a case of "same struggles, different dimension".
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:41 PM
 
2,191 posts, read 4,208,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant View Post
... and therefore, for all practical intents and purposes, there is no point in discussing it because the discussion can go nowhere.

I'm acquainted with people who have had personal subjective experiences of what one might generically call "the divine" or "higher realms of consciousness" or "afterlife evidence", etc., and who find that persuasive -- for themselves. But it will never be something they can use to persuade anyone else. It's inherently limited. "God has no grandchildren", as the saying goes. Everyone must touch the ineffable (or not) for themselves.

For someone like me who has never had such experiences and does not appear even somewhat susceptible to them, it is Information Unobtanium and I prefer to order my life by what I can be sure of, while remaining open to any actual new data that might turn up. Perhaps your hoped-for scientific breakthroughs, perhaps a persuasive personal subjective experience of my own. Until then, it's all claims that are not verifiable -- not even to me personally -- and beyond a certain point (which I reached quite a long time ago) I become completely bored with the whole topic.

Besides ... I find that spirituality is far from centrally necessary or important to a reasonable life. I find my close human relationships to be sufficient for providing that sense of participating in something larger than myself. No one debates the existence or nature of my fiancee, children, grandchildren, step children or in-laws, or of my employer or friends. I find relating to and supporting these people completely satisfactory, or at least as satisfactory as anything appears to be for anyone. For me, if there ends up being "something more" it would only be icing on the cake. At the same time, I don't want to live forever anymore than I want to watch a movie that drones on for 12 hours, no matter hour good it is.

Besides, who is to say that some spiritual realm is automatically idyllic? Isn't that a bit convenient? If there is a spiritual realm it is probably a case of "same struggles, different dimension".
The conversation isn't pointless or people wouldn't be talking about it. Your beliefs create the reality you see and everything done reinforces that very simple notion. Individual interpretations of higher level dimensions are inexplicable in our terms. Our language simply isn't capable of putting into words the experiences. It would make this life seem like a five minute experiment by comparison.
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Old 11-25-2011, 07:47 PM
 
25,630 posts, read 30,472,660 times
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He finally saw the Matrix.
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Old 11-25-2011, 09:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Actually . . . this flies in the face of what we know about the physics of our reality. Our brain is definitely the production facility . . . but it is not the locus for our composite consciousness . . . that resides in the universal field. Any changes, disease, trauma, disruptions, etc. in the production facility will alter the current output . . . but has no effect on what has already been produced.
Given my experiences in deep meditation . . . the next stage of existence is definitely "Oh Wow" material.

Definitely a good attitude toward this life . . . but I can only say you are in for a surprise regarding the next.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
And your proof for any of this is where?
Your expectations of "proof" are not realistic . . . but there is significant supportive evidence in science. Start here:

My Synthesis1

My Synthesis2

My Synthesis3

My Synthesis4

My Synthesis5
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:20 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Steve Jobs had faith struggles, but I don't believe he was an avowed atheist. He had doubts due to the suffering in the world. I don't appreciate that some here have stated (wrongly) that Steve Jobs was an atheist.

Steve Jobs 'Oh Wow': What Do His Last Words Really Mean? - Speakeasy - WSJ
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Old 12-02-2011, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
I hope not. Hopefully cryonics / other life extension technologies will advance and I won't have to taste death. If that doesn't happen, I hope my passing is quick and painless.

I suppose. I think he may have seen something, I just think that whatever he saw was hallucinatory.

Death is a tragic experience, and I wish it was something that no one had to go through. However, I don't think pre-death hallucinations are any sign of an afterlife or a soul. The existence of a soul has been pretty much debunked by science.
Well where does "Human Consciousness" come from? Does it not strike you are being rather miraculous in and of itself. I mean, how can we BE AWARE THAT WE ARE, quite frankly. And do you suppose some things could be conscious that are not in the animal kingdom -- flowers, rocks, etc...??? Obviously we can't know since we cannot communicate with them, per se -
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Old 12-02-2011, 08:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heartsong View Post
Well where does "Human Consciousness" come from? Does it not strike you are being rather miraculous in and of itself. I mean, how can we BE AWARE THAT WE ARE, quite frankly. And do you suppose some things could be conscious that are not in the animal kingdom -- flowers, rocks, etc...??? Obviously we can't know since we cannot communicate with them, per se -
Good point heart and I agree. Just the fact that we have awareness of ourselves is one of the reasons I believe in a higher being or consciousness. I think our brains are like computers for our body but where does our awareness and emotions come from?
In any event, as far Steve Jobs last words..who knows. Albert Einstein said something like..."It`s beautiful over there". Atheist once again show that they are just like christians in a lot of ways. They believe what they believe and they demean anything and anybody that thinks differently.
If Jobs had said..I see nothing, everything is going black, gooddbye. Atheist would say..see, this proves there is nothing. If he stood up and said in a clear voice, I can`t believe it, I was wrong..I see Angels or God, then atheist would say he was hallucinating. Of course, religious folks would say the exact opposite.
There are just too many of these type of things that happen on deathbeds that can`t be explained. There must be something else to it. To say, it`s just hallucinations or the brain dying, endorphins, blah,blah,blah is a cop out to me. I`m not a fundamentalist christian and I don`t take the bible literally. But I don`t dismiss these things so quickly either. Before the microscope was invented, there were a lot of things that people didn`t see. It did not mean they weren`t there. Same thing with the telescope.
I think it`s the same way with spiritual things. Just because we can`t see them right now, doesn`t mean they are not there. There will be plenty of discoveries in future lifetimes that we never knew about. Today you would say, they don`t exist. But they did exist, you just didn`t see them.

Last edited by spm62; 12-02-2011 at 09:32 PM..
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Old 12-03-2011, 07:36 AM
 
Location: New England
32,289 posts, read 21,144,034 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Good point heart and I agree. Just the fact that we have awareness of ourselves is one of the reasons I believe in a higher being or consciousness. I think our brains are like computers for our body but where does our awareness and emotions come from?
In any event, as far Steve Jobs last words..who knows. Albert Einstein said something like..."It`s beautiful over there". Atheist once again show that they are just like christians in a lot of ways. They believe what they believe and they demean anything and anybody that thinks differently.
If Jobs had said..I see nothing, everything is going black, gooddbye. Atheist would say..see, this proves there is nothing. If he stood up and said in a clear voice, I can`t believe it, I was wrong..I see Angels or God, then atheist would say he was hallucinating. Of course, religious folks would say the exact opposite.
There are just too many of these type of things that happen on deathbeds that can`t be explained. There must be something else to it. To say, it`s just hallucinations or the brain dying, endorphins, blah,blah,blah is a cop out to me. I`m not a fundamentalist christian and I don`t take the bible literally. But I don`t dismiss these things so quickly either. Before the microscope was invented, there were a lot of things that people didn`t see. It did not mean they weren`t there. Same thing with the telescope.
I think it`s the same way with spiritual things. Just because we can`t see them right now, doesn`t mean they are not there. There will be plenty of discoveries in future lifetimes that we never knew about. Today you would say, they don`t exist. But they did exist, you just didn`t see them.
Good post spm.
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