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Old 11-29-2011, 06:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Atheist hate being called out for the same arrogance and pompous attitude that they accuse the religious for having. So they become highly defensive and call you stupid,uneducated, fence sitter,etc. While the religious call you heathen, damned, degenerate.
As the joke goes, thank goodness you've found a way to make yourself feel superior to both sides :

Quote:
Meanwhile the agnostic just sits back and watches the hypocricy in both of them. The atheist and religious actually have a lot in common. They are both absolutely sure they are right and have a whole list of names they will call you if you disagree with them.
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Old 11-29-2011, 07:46 AM
 
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Originally Posted by mythunderstood View Post
First of all, as an atheist, I do not say that "there is no supernatural creator." How should I know? For all I know, there could be hundreds out there! If there is a god, I just have not found any reason to believe in one (as of yet). Secondly, not knowing how the universe started, or if it has always existed in one form or another (no "origin"), is not a "belief". Just because I do not hold a particular belief does not mean that I must therefore hold some alternate belief. Not holding the belief that a god created the universe does not mean that I must therefore hold a particular belief about the universe (which I don't).

It sounds like you are trying to make atheism into a belief system when it is really not. For comparison, let's look at Big Foot. My lack of belief in Big Foot means that I don't hold the belief that Big Foot is hiding in my closet, that Big Foot wrote the bible, or that Big Foot drives a mack truck. Of course, NOT having a belief in the existence of something would mean that one would NOT have any corollary beliefs involving some action by said object. Isn't that obvious? So, would you say that you have a "belief system" based on these things? No. If I don't have a belief in something, my worldview is not made up of all various scenario beliefs involving the actions of something for which I have no belief.
Sure, someone can say to us: “Atheists, do you believe that god made this sandwich?” If we answer “no” then suddenly, something we never even gave serious thought to a minute before, becomes a part of the “atheist belief system” according to some theists. Us NOT having the belief that god made your sandwich suddenly gets turned around to a positive belief that we supposedly hold as part of the “atheist belief system.” Ridiculous!
Can't rep you but a very good post in which you show up the rather extreme rhetorical trickery of our theist apologists putting into atheists' mouths and heads, words and ideas which could be knocked down as easily as any flimsy strawman even without the need to use false arguments on them.

I might also say to our crop of 'New Agnostics' with what appears to be a militant 'pox on both your houses' view of the theism debate, that there is nothing praiseworthy is doing nothing and picking holes in the two sides who try to do something.
In a way a Theist, who at least tries to resolves the knotty questions of religion, is preferable to those who either cannot or will not address the issues before them on the basis of reason and the available data.

While open - minded agnosticism is desirable (I'm an agnostic myself) in the approach to the debate, opting for a militant 'don't know' attitude in despite, not to say defiance, of the available data is closed - minded even more than the theist who picks the data that suits and ignores the rest; the be-all -end -all agnostic appears to ignore it all. This too easy (not to say intellectually cowardly) fence-sitting is an unreasonable, illogical and frankly lazy opt-out of the debate.

If they don't wish to involve in it, that is their choice, but they are then in no position to expound on the matter, let alone heap abuse on the heads of the other two sides.

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-29-2011 at 07:57 AM..
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Old 11-29-2011, 08:54 AM
 
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Originally Posted by northstar22 View Post
007.5, atheism is not a "club." There are no members, no tenets, no beliefs. It is just the lack of belief in gods.

I can't speak for all atheists (remember, atheism is not a religion, just a lack of belief in gods), but I strive to live a very moral lifestyle.

I love my family and friends, I treat everyone with compassion and respect, I give to the poor, I care about suffering in the world.

I'm not a sexual hedonist -- I don't believe in orgies or having multiple sexual partners. Personally, I believe in saving sex for a committed relationship based on mutual love and respect.

I don't use drugs, I rarely drink, I spend within my means, I place the needs of others before myself.

And I'm an atheist.

My atheism has nothing to do with how I live, and it is just one very, very small part of who I am.
Atheism IS a club...a formal one (IE: AAA and other established ones) in addition to non formal clubs or commaraderie groups as evidenced by such forums as City Data . There are also atheist national conferences and local social clubs for the atheist and agnostic . Atheism has all the overtones of a secular religion ---- its followers have a worldview counter to special creation and is thus affirmative in beliefs, it is social (IE: alt.social.atheism online) and its ideologies and constructs are integrated into ones lifestyle since beliefs govern how we behave ; it has agendas such as not wanting ALL causes for our cosmos taught in public schools such as intelligent design without even opening a BIble . , in addition to proactive pursuits against any form of Christianity such as removal of crosses from City Water Towers, Christmas Pagents from schools, and praying to Jesus or God publicly . It is determined to grow the U.S. into a stronger secular nation which goes against the very founders desires for this Nation to be based on CHristian principles because they are the highest known to mankind and offer the greatest protection for a civil society. Atheisms moral relativism cannot because its based on getting self centered feelings filled instead of whats objectively right to do from wrong.

You are not a true Atheism, only a proclaimed one like i was for 10 adult years. Atheistic origins is puerile by expecting people to believe everything is to be taken for granted because theres not a shred of purpose or meaning beyond survival on earth.

You may have some noble pursuits as listed, but how do you justify them as absolutely right and noble, if your a moral relativist ?

Last edited by 007.5; 11-29-2011 at 09:07 AM..
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Old 11-29-2011, 06:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
As the joke goes, thank goodness you've found a way to make yourself feel superior to both sides :
Who said anything about superior and why would you think someone feels superior to you? Interesting.... What makes you think I feel superior to you? Do you feel superior to those who disagree with you?
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Old 11-30-2011, 01:14 AM
 
Location: Metromess
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007.5: I think you meant to use "e.g." (for example) rather than "i.e." (in other words).

I am an atheist, have been for decades and belong to no "club". Your denigration of atheism is out of ignorance. I have purpose and meaning in my life without resorting to theism.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
Who said anything about superior and why would you think someone feels superior to you?
I never thought that people would use accusations of hypocrisy as a complement, but maybe I'm mistaken.
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Old 11-30-2011, 06:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by 007.5 View Post
Atheism IS a club...a formal one (IE: AAA and other established ones)
I've used the AAA a fair bit (dead battery, locked my keys in the car) and never once have I been asked about my religious affiliation. You must have met some strange tow truck drivers in your day to make this mistake.
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Old 11-30-2011, 07:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by catman View Post
007.5: I think you meant to use "e.g." (for example) rather than "i.e." (in other words).

I am an atheist, have been for decades and belong to no "club". Your denigration of atheism is out of ignorance. I have purpose and meaning in my life without resorting to theism.
I am an atheist too and I've never been in any club either. Sometimes I wonder where these people get their information or rather misinformation from because it's patently false.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:36 AM
 
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
I never thought that people would use accusations of hypocrisy as a complement, but maybe I'm mistaken.
At least you admit you could be mistaken. You could be mistaken about a lot of things, but then again, so could I? Until something is definitively proven to be true or not true, I leave the door open. Sorry you feel diminished by that.
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Old 11-30-2011, 10:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Djuna View Post
I am an atheist too and I've never been in any club either. Sometimes I wonder where these people get their information or rather misinformation from because it's patently false.
I believe in a Supreme Being/God ,but I don`t belong to a club or church either.
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