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Old 11-01-2011, 10:52 PM
 
1,570 posts, read 1,741,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GalileoSmith View Post
I thought atheism was consciously not believing in a god-like being. Agnosticism was not caring one way or the other.
Not caring is apathy, agnosticism is not knowing. I suppose someone could go get the dictionary definition... Oh fine, I'll do it.

ag·nos·tic   [ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. Synonyms: disbeliever, nonbeliever, unbeliever; doubter, skeptic, secularist, empiricist; heathen, heretic, infidel, pagan.
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
8,090 posts, read 4,729,944 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerama View Post
Yeah, it's pretty impressive how religious folks have managed to frame the debate that not believing in god is just as questionable as believing in god. Somehow the traditional basis of having to prove your position is now - well, I don't have to prove there's a god, you have to prove he doesn't exist. Sheeesh.

You don't seem to understand what you are saying. Religious folks aren't the ones proclaiming to be agnostic. Nor did "religious folks" create the term agnostic. People that are effectively the definition of agnosticism created the term agnosticism to separate themselves from the religion-haters that call themselves atheists.


No one is saying that it is the job of atheists to prove that god doesn't exist. But many atheists speak as if they know everything about everything, when they know absolutely nothing. On the other hand, agnostics simply state that, they don't want to take part in the religious debate. They aren't going to say that god exists or doesn't exist, because they simply do not know.


My personal views on religion, atheism, and agnosticism are not really contradictory at all.

I always look at it like this, if there was no god, what is the point of life? If you say it is only to live your life, or to be happy, or to experience things. Then what if I walked up and shot you and killed you. Would it really matter? You wouldn't be upset, because you wouldn't exist anymore. So your life can only actually matter if you have an effect on others. Basically, life only matters because life exists.


In my view, the only point of life in absolute terms, is for your life to affect the world around you. And the only lives worth living are the ones that have a positive effect on the world. If your life has a net negative effect on the world, then the world would have been better off if you had never been born. Effectively, your life is meaningless.

So since we can boil down the only legitimate purpose of life to be to "make the world a better place"(basically, to be a good person). And since when we look at basically every religion that ever existed, it's primary intention is "to get people to be good". Then we know that, regardless of if you are religious or not, as long as you are a good person, then you really should have nothing to worry about.


I honestly find most of the self-proclaimed atheists to be angry and hateful people, who generally have parent issues. Usually in part because they were forced to go to church in their youths. And who are far less scientific than I would have believed them to be. Usually spouting off some crap they read in a book without actually understanding it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 07:30 AM
 
21,044 posts, read 19,591,024 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Annilyna View Post


YES, mods! It should be moved .















Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsjacob38 View Post
An atheist claims something doesnt exist just because they cant see it, yet and agnostic acknowledges that it could possibly exist but wont be convinced until seeing it firsthand!












SO?
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:49 PM
 
400 posts, read 234,829 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OddBall84 View Post
I am not an Atheist personally I hate religion I think of it that way. I believe its all fairy tale. I don't consider myself an Atheist because they claim there is proof god and satan don't exist etc but to me there is always a chance they might I just personally don't care. Organized religion is an opiate for the masses.
You are mistaken if you think that to be an atheist means one claims there is proof that God and Satan don't exist. While I am sure there are some atheists who would assert such a thing, most hold to no such thing.

And regarding proof, that is hardly any standard I use. There is little if any proof of anything outside of mathematics, but merely evidence or lack thereof.

I am not agnostic about passenger pigeons or tyrannosaurs, for example. There is no proof they do not exist. Indeed, there is no proof they once existed. However, there is quite a mass of very compelling evidence that each once existed, to the point where the vast majority of people accept their mutual past existences. But as for now, there is nothing but an absence of evidence that they exist. Thus, I do not believe that either passenger pigeons or tyrannosaurs exist (note again the present tense). I wonder, do you share my disbelief in these regards?

Moving on, I do not believe in the Minotaur. Can I prove it never existed? No, of course not. I do not believe in Faeries. Can I prove they do not exist? No, of course not. Nor do I believe that there was a spaceship hiding behind Comet Hale-Bopp in 1997, and that the souls of 38 people who castrated themselves, put on Nikes, and drank cyanide were transported to said purported spacecraft. Can I prove that this spaceship did not exist, or that the souls of said successful suicides made the leap, so to speak, to that spaceship? Again, no.

And yet I am not agnostic about the existence of the Minotaur, of faeries, or of the spaceship in question. I wonder, are you? Do you expect me to be?
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Seattle bound
284 posts, read 422,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Had2SaySumthin View Post
Gotta make up your mind at some point.
Make me.

Every time I think I might know something, something else comes along to shake my knowledge. I'm pretty sure I'll stay Agnostic until I die. Then, who knows?
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Old 11-02-2011, 03:59 PM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,945 posts, read 4,756,030 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Had2SaySumthin View Post
Agnostics are just atheists without the stones to make a definitive statement. We like to think of them as our weak-minded cousins.
AHAHAH silly people...

AGNOSTICISM IS TRUTH.

how is that for definitive?
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:54 PM
 
39,339 posts, read 10,954,803 times
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Redshadowz " But many atheists speak as if they know everything about everything, when they know absolutely nothing. On the other hand, agnostics simply state that, they don't want to take part in the religious debate. They aren't going to say that god exists or doesn't exist, because they simply do not know."

I think this is unfair. Many atheists have looked into the matter in depth and have good reasons for what they claim and can back it up. To those who deal in 'who knows what's true' this could look like 'know it all' but it isn't.

For our part we are sure that religions and their personal gods and Holy books do not stack up and we have to say why as a counter to those theists who claim that they are the truth.

Agnostics sometimes agree and attack religious claims as vehemently as atheists do. In fact they are just as atheist as regards personal gods as atheists are and atheists are just as agnostic about a 'god' of some sort as agnostics are.

We are on the same side, or ought to be "for the laughter of Mordor will be our only reward if we quarrel." (Gandalf. LOR. FR)
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,689,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Exactly, we really don't know jack ****. If anyone tries to say they know something, they are the biggest fool of all.
And yet you type on a keyboard and at the speed of light your words are available to anybody anywhere in the world who seeks them out... all thanks to the "nothing we know?"

Please, reassure me that you are a parody.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Littleton, CO
20,894 posts, read 13,689,188 times
Reputation: 3949
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingKrab View Post
Trey Parker, creator of south park, says it the best:

"Basically ... out of all the ridiculous religion stories which are greatly, wonderfully ridiculous — the silliest one I've ever heard is, 'Yeah ... there's this big giant universe and it's expanding, it's all gonna collapse on itself and we're all just here just 'cause ... just 'cause'. That, to me, is the most ridiculous explanation ever."-Trey Parker
source, wikipedia
Yes... cartoonists are where I go to learn about the cosmos.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:30 PM
 
Location: MW
1,433 posts, read 997,093 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frozenyo View Post
You're not an agnostic if you claim something to be "unanswerable"..The origin of the universe was one "unanswerable" but today not so much. That's a ridiculous position to take.



You can't prove I don't have six heads. Should you abstain from making a judgement just because I made a claim?



I find these "positions" cute. They are of no use. You can't even define what a "higher being" would be but you believe in it then claim you couldn't prove it's existence either way..Really? LOL..Think about that for a second.
Ha, judging from your status I can see you aren't interested in anyone else's opinions, "cute" or not.

You're probably one of those people who hate it when people shove "god" down your throat.
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